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FARE ENOUGH
“Race attacks spread,” reports the Sydney Morning Herald:
In Adelaide, a taxidriver of Lebanese origin, Hossein Kazemi, was injured when punched by a passenger during an incident at suburban Gilberton today.
“There was some sort of discrepancy and argument over the fare,” a South Australian Police spokesman said.
Australia witnessed in 2001 what might be similarly described as a race attack, also involving a Lebanese driver and a fare argument:
Bachir Mustafa, a Sydney taxi driver, had his arm broken by Mark Latham in a dispute over a £15 fare. Mr Mustafa, 36, has not driven his cab since and, because of post-operative complications, he has lost some of the use of his right arm.
Hmm. Meanwhile, police are shutting down the current trouble zone:
Police prepared to impose a virtual blockade on Sutherland Shire last night, erecting checkpoints on every main access road to prevent a repeat of the race riots at Cronulla.
And State Parliament will be recalled tomorrow to give police emergency powers to lock down parts of Sydney, ban the sale of alcohol, conduct random searches and confiscate vehicles.
An extra 450 police took to the streets in expectation of a third night of racial tension. Officers restricted in-bound traffic to Cronulla to one lane and checked every car passing a checkpoint on Kingsway, at the corner of Wilbar Avenue, from about 9pm.
None of which will do much good in the absence of effective bail laws:
The state’s flawed bail laws mean every single lout - from both sides - arrested in this week’s riots will be back on the street almost immediately.
Members of the public and Opposition politicians were yesterday angry that police could arrest people involved in the incidents and be forced, under the state’s bail laws, to release the alleged offenders while violence continues.
And where is the entirely state-funded ABC during this crucial national issue?
About 50 ABC radio staff went on strike for 24 hours yesterday as part of a long-running dispute about the culling of six production jobs in current affairs in Sydney.
The strike affected AM, PM and The World Today.
Not on strike is Professor Bunyip—nor the folk at Muscular Liberals, who observe:
Wouldn’t it be easier to ship both sets of thugs off to some faraway island where drunken violence and cop-bashing are acceptable cultural norms? The UK perhaps?
Well, that’s where David Hicks might be headed.
UPDATE. Blogstrop comments: “Funny how the Cronulla incident is said by some to damage Australia’s image, while the participation of an Australian (now also British) citizen in a training group of murdering, illegal scumbags is not.”
UPDATE II. Excellent woggy analysis of events so far.
UPDATE III. Neo-Lefty Chick writes to Antony Loewenstein: “Gangs of Lebanese males have terrorised Sydney-siders, particularly women, for 20 years. I have been a victim of their awful intimidation myself. Fortunately, I can run, unlike so many of the poor ‘skippy sluts’ who were ...”
Raped. Sensitive Antony responds: “Neolefty chick is hysterical. As usual. Any chance to bash those Aaarabs, with whom she has so much experience, she’ll take it.”
UPDATE IV. The Washington Post seeks a reporter in Sydney:
In an overnight email to The Australian’s Perth-based Mark Dodd, the Post’s foreign editor, Keith Richburg says he is seeking a Sydney-based stringer. “The latest beach riots there, following the discovery of the ‘terror cell’ pointed out to me our vast nakedness in that part of the world,” Richburg says. For those interested, the Post is looking for someone who can write news with a “Yank perspective in mind, like explaining what a dingo is, for idiots”, he says.
(Via Gareth Parker, who notes: “The Post’s foreign editor obviously knows his readership.”)
UPDATE V. Paul Watson mentions “the 5000 or so white pride rioters on Sunday.” Nonsense. As Nazi-hunter Darp points out, “of the five thousand people who turned up ... less than fifty of them would be hardcore racist activists.”
UPDATE VI. Opinion from two NSW police officers.
On the Hicks story, there is a SMH headline at the moment to the effect: ‘PM has no comment on Hicks case’.
C’mon Johnny, don’t be shy. Get your name in the history books as the first PM to publicly say ‘good riddance’. It will wind up Ramsey and his Herald mates no end, which should bring us some entertainment.
As for the Cronulla case, it is making news here, with disgracefully one-sided coverage on the BBC. Effectively presented as being caused by just one side - the contribution of the other side to tension is almost ignored.
Posted by Flying Giraffe on 2005 12 13 at 12:20 PM • permalinkNice reporting Tim, but where is an analysis? What’s your take on it (and no, ‘‘pox on both their houses’’ won’t cut it). In your opinion, why the riots are occuring - too many immigrants? too many rednecks? the policemen are pussies?
Unlike the French riots, where the good guys (Sarkozy), the bad guys (rioters) and the cowards (Chirac, Villepin) are easily identifiable, the Australian riots seem to be much more complicated. But please tells us how you really feel about it!!!Posted by sonia belle on 2005 12 13 at 12:32 PM • permalinkWhy don’t police have the powers to deal with rioters normally? To have to recall State Parliament to give police the “police powers” they should have already had seems to be insane. A riot could have already run its course by then…
Why don’t police have the ability to be police?
Posted by Eric Anondson on 2005 12 13 at 01:12 PM • permalink“Wouldn’t it be easier to ship both sets of thugs off to some faraway island where drunken violence and cop-bashing are acceptable cultural norms? The UK perhaps?”
Delicious irony. That’s how Australia got started and that’s how the mother country may end. Incidentally, did Latham ever have to pay any compensation to Bachir Mustapha? Sounds like the excitable Mr Latham practically ripped the guy’s arm off and beat him over the head with it.
#3 on “shots fired”: The church in Lakemba has cancelled it carols services at Holy Spirit Primary School. Another victory for the Religion of Peace. Of course, the church, with commendable prudence, has cancelled this beautiful service. It must, for it cannot have confidence that the police and the government, now too busy soothing Muslim nerves, will make an effort to afford Christian children any protection. Where is the outrage from your press over this outrage?
Stats, press outrage will be like nothing you have ever seen if it transpires the congregation of the catholic church is predominantly Lebanese Christians, and the shooters are anglo-celtic.
Posted by Steve at the pub on 2005 12 13 at 02:18 PM • permalinkFolks, since “sonia belle” wasn’t polite enough to do so, I’ll point out that her bloglink ain’t safe for work.
And it’s nice that you demand an analysis from Tim on this, sonia….considering that the top post on your blog is a review of a 1975 S&M flick based on a novel by the Marquis De Sade. Brought on, apparently, by the current topic of torture.
While I could care less for your sexual preferences, it’s pretty obvious that your blog is hardly the cat’s meow for insightful political and cultural discussion. Social, possibly. But I wouldn’t bet on it, given that the name of the Marquis de Sade is the root word for sadism.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 13 at 02:19 PM • permalinkbelle: But please tells us how you really feel about it!!!
That doesn’t strike me as a “demand”, JeffS.
Whatever might be on her site, (I won’t look, thanks), her post here seems to me reasonable, polite, and apropos.
Posted by zeppenwolf on 2005 12 13 at 02:36 PM • permalink#8, Steve, Sad but true. However, there is no group the Leb Muslims hate more than the Leb Christians. Remenber their grand war against the Christians which they won, once the UN and US press pressured the Israelis into withdrawing from the Leb. Ironically, the Muslim Lebs inherited Syrian and Hezbollah oppression, of which they are now trying to rid themselves.
#4 So Sonia Belle wants to identify the good and bad guys, wants some analysis, perhaps some handwringing about ‘root causes’. Here’s a blog “IslamQ&A” (look it up)which gives a succinct response to the “bad” and “root causes” of the problems in Australia and everywhere else:
Question: “I am a Muslim living in a foreign country with my husband in order to earn a living. I hope that you could tell me of the obligations and duties and guidelines that a Muslim would should adhere to, because there are so many Muslim women living in foreign lands.”
The response is long but part 8 of the answer explains all:
“Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
. .
. 8 –– You should instill a hatred for this culture and its ways in the hearts of your children, and inform them that it is contrary to divine law and the sound nature of man. Give them examples and contrast it with Islamic morals, and instill a sense of connection with Islamic culture and its ways, and let them know that they will not stay in that land for long”Now you have it, bad guys, root causes, and all.
This is what I read, zeppenwolf:
”...(and no, ‘’pox on both their houses’’ won’t cut it). In your opinion, why the riots are occuring - too many immigrants? too many rednecks? the policemen are pussies?”
Looks like a demand to me, complete with an attitude. But I could be wrong. If so, I apologize.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 13 at 02:40 PM • permalinkTim: Cheers for the link - a deluge of visitors was probably the only thing that was going to get me to pull my finger out and actually start sorting the site out :)
Have you got the talking heads on the telly excusing the rioters behaviour by attributing it to “root causes” (a la Paris) yet? I’d agree with Flying Giraffe (#2) that the BBC has presented a fairly one-sided account blaming everything on racism, with the occasional mention of the attacks on the lifeguards that seem to have sparked things off.
Last night’s Newsnight on BBC2 referred only to “men of Meditteranean appearance” rather than previous reports that had spoken of Lebanese gangs, so I guess they’re going through the whole <strike>terrorist</strike> militant debate again (at the taxpayers’ expense of course).
I’m intrigued to see how your media cover these riots in comparison.
My traffic just went up into the stratosphere thanks to The_Real_JeffS’s advertising of my erotic blog. I hope people won’t be too shocked…
The_Real_JeffS,
And what is YOUR take on the Australian riots? We know what you think about Sade and my sexual preferences, but what about the topic at hand? Do you have as strong an opinion about Muslims and racists in Austalia as you have about my blog?
Posted by sonia belle on 2005 12 13 at 03:01 PM • permalinksonia, I think the Aussies have had enough of the Lebanonese Muslim gang violence, and that a bunch of leftards are playing the racist card against the Aussies. It’s much more likely that the Lebanonese Muslims are the racists here, and the leftards are enabling those thugs to continue with said violence. It’s regrettable that some of the Aussies got out of hand, but that’s what happens when the police can’t or won’t do their job.
I also think that you are likely linkwhoring. But this is Tim’s blog, and his call. I mention this merely because your tendency to ask such questions at a known RWDB blog where Tim already made his views known undermines your credibility as a serious poster.
Prove me wrong.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 13 at 03:20 PM • permalinkAnd, oh yeah—it’s not that I care about your blog, I’ve seen better porn, and certainly better commentary. It’s that you didn’t have the common courtesy to mark it as NOT SAFE FOR WORK. Or children, for that matter. I’m at home now, but not everyone else is. Be considerate of your fellow bloggers.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 13 at 03:22 PM • permalinkThe_Real_Jerk,
What’s RWDB ?
I am not Australian and I don’t know Tim Blair’s site, so I asked my question in all innocence… And yes, I am linkwhoring (that’s the least of my whoring sins!), but I am also genuinely interested in politics.
Thank you for being candid with me I think the Aussies have had enough of the Lebanonese Muslim gang violence identifies your political views very openely. Just one question - how long one has to live in Australia to become an Aussie ? Three generations? six?
Posted by sonia belle on 2005 12 13 at 03:32 PM • permalinkMy apologies, sonia. I misread your intentions.
I can’t speak for Australia, being an American, but I’ve known immigrants to become naturalized Americans (citizenship, military service, and all) in one generation.
On other hand, some people simply refuse to integrate with their country, and “self-ghettoize” themselves, and remain separate for generations….without causing problems amongst their neighbors. The Amish come to mind.
It all depends on just what the immigrant wants to do. That the Lebanonese Muslims are behaving the way they are speaks volumes about the failure of “multi-culturism”.
Please continue to ask your questions, and I will be quiet.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 13 at 03:37 PM • permalinkPS: “RWDB” = “Right Wing Death Beast”, a moniker invented by far left liberals, but enthusiastically accepted by those so labeled as a self-appointed joke.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 13 at 03:40 PM • permalinkThanks Jonny,
So nice to meet a real gentleman!
The_Real_JeffS,
You still didn’t tell what RWDB is…
I feel like a dumb blond asking that, but I really don’t know…As for failure of multi-cultur(al)ism… whose fault is that?
Are only Lebanese Muslims rioting ? What about other immigrants?
And BTW, next time you visit my blog, look closely on the right sidebar…
Posted by sonia belle on 2005 12 13 at 03:45 PM • permalinkGreat Stuff over at biased BBC blog
Natalie posts the interesting comparison between “Thugs attack en masse” in Portugal and “Thugs attack on Masse” in Cronulla.
1 “the youngsters came from poorer suburbs of the capital”
2Thousands of young white men have converged on Cronulla Beach in Sydney, Australia, and attacked people of Arabic and Mediterranean background.”and :Some regular Cronulla beachgoers said that the behaviour of Middle Eastern groups was so offensive, they opted to travel to other beaches instead; DT
becomes”[Cronulla beach] is often visited by young people from the poorer suburbs of western and southern Sydney.
Area residents accuse the visitors of being disrespectful and of sometimes intimidating other beach-goers. ” (Unconfirmed elements of doubt to promote disbelief).
Cheap shameful journalism repeated ad infinitum by the BBC. One would dop better getting the News form New Idea !Thank you Real_Jeff!
It took me a while to write my post. I am better (and more used to) posing nude than writing…
I understand Right Wing, but why Death Beast ? What did you guys do to merit such abuse ?
Posted by sonia belle on 2005 12 13 at 03:50 PM • permalinkWell, that’s where David Hicks might be headed.
Err, guess what, David Hicks will probably head home to Australia. As a UK citizen, he’ll be able to retain his Australian citizenship and passport.
Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2005 12 13 at 04:29 PM • permalinkBen Paul in today’s SMH thinks that a good dose of religious vilification law will cure the problem. He sees the problem as (i) nasty sedition law - we hates it, and (ii) nasty Aussie types - “The new laws would even allow groups involved in the violence, such as the Patriotic Youth League, Australia First or Blood and Honour, to be banned as unlawful associations for having a seditious intention”.
He omits mention of the misguided and ridiculous persecution of Christian ministers under similar laws in Victoria.
The article also seems to have no recognition of the contribution being made to discord of those who hate all other religions and all enlightened social systems. Freedom of speech is a convenient catch-cry only when your side sees an argumentative benefit in using it.
Religious vilification? Who are the masters of religious fascism?Sonia: you seem quiet ignorant of how the internet works. Let me explain it to you: when you are a newcomer on another person’s website it’s generally not appropriate to 1) jump on the site owner demanding that he answer whatever question pops into your head, especially a question indicating that you actually didn’t read very much on the blog you are supposedly so curious about, and 2) though your using your risque site in your ID link was perhaps innocent, your surprise that people would visit your blog and then become offended rings a little false. I have not visited your site, not having any interest in pictures of naked women, but perhaps you should keep in mind in the future that people do go on the internet from public venues or homes with children nearby or are just not into the sort of thing you are into. I notice that you are on Blogspot: that service allows you to have more than one blog, so maybe you should make a “safe” one for times such as this.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 12 13 at 04:37 PM • permalinkFrom #17 Sonia, the confessed linkwhore, comments on #15, the Real_Jeffs remark: “I think the Aussies have had enough of the Lebanonese Muslim gang violence” first with a childish insult (labelling him as the Real_Jerk)and then a moronic attempt at an insult by stating that his comment “identifies your political views very openely[sic].” The #17 comment by “Real” simply gives an opinion supported by empirical facts. I suppose there must be only one political view that objects to gang rape, intimidation of pregnant women at beaches, smashing up private property, and on and on, and those politics are not yours. But then again, you’re more adept at shedding your clothes than thinking. (Be aware, the Muslims do not appreciate women who publicly expose themselves. Your attempt to gain some attention in this way is only considered pathetic in the Western World. By Muslim law, your attempt at self-congratulation would be your death warrant.)
Multiculturims cannot be seen to fail so when it does it is called racism so as not to acknowledge failure.
The authorities (police and politicians) have failed miserably through a plethora of long standing errors to avert the present situation.
they are now covering their arses.
The PM of NSW should be kicked out long with Maroney forthwith.
Now all they can do is Blame ” White racists”, for their own idiocies, and any action by the muslims gangs will now be labelled just and fair retaliation.
it is politically correct to accuse whites of racism but not muslims gangs. it is also PC to arrest white rioters but not Lebanese rioters.
So what we will now see are excuses such as “youths venting their anger and letting off steam “, when police are questioned about why they do not arrest rioters in lakemba.
And they will round up “the usual supects”, ie “neo Nazi inspired white trash” to satisfy the PC media.The media still has tunnel vision, I see.
Taxi drivers mugged? I’m shocked! How could such a thing happen?
Back in reality, real, directly-linked attacks have taken place, and are being dutifully ignored by the media. In Auburn a Uniting Church has been burned to the ground.
It’s all over the television, as soon as someone in the MSM bothers to put up an online article about it, I’ll link to it.
Oh, and here’s one of those “white power Aryanists” who attacked the untermenschen in Cronulla.
A pity the picture couldn’t also show the Yugoslavs, Asians and Africans who were there, wearing Australian flags and acting all disgraceful-like. But then, that would kinda undermine the whole “racist” thing.
Posted by Mike Jericho on 2005 12 13 at 05:08 PM • permalinkHere’s one google string. Remove ‘uniting’ from the field and you get more.
It’s been noticed that the Uniting church was situated near an Islamic center.
Today (channel 9) had
Anthont Mundine bleating about racism in Oz, and I had to change the channel because the rugrat was learning a few new words.I changed over to Sunrise, but unfortunatel, Kochie and Mel are having a bit of a kumbaya circle this morning. They had a muslim spokesman, a rugby player (Jason Stevens, I think - probably wrong) and some other bloke.
Needless to say, 50% of muslims in Aus are under 30 or 40, and therefore don’t get enough funding or opportunities.
/bleatLet’s see, we had ‘disenchantment’ and ‘lack of opportunities’ and nothing about why on earth these poor utes would go to the beach to harrass women, children, and groups of one or less young men. Why don’t they actually go get jobs? Or continue education?
Okay, I know that a HECS debt is a bummer, but if they are so disadvantaged, don’t tell me there’s no support out there for them.
Again, it all comes back to we want more money and opportunities.
Yeah, sure. No problems.
Poor Morrie must be getting ready for an attack of the vapours about now.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 12 13 at 05:36 PM • permalinkFunny how the Cronulla incident is said by some to damage Australia’s image, while the participation of an Australian (now also British) citizen in a training group of murdering, illegal scumbags is not.
Still waiting for Hicks senior (or junior) to apologise for the shame they have brought on Australia.[Not kid-safe link included]
An uber-nudist since she(?) was 20 with the last picture of her wearing clothes being 1988…With tanlines?
Otherwise, nice assumed identity Hirumi…
;^)Nice to see some in the media (inc. ABC) talking absolute crap about Howard & Co. being silent on the riots - where were those ABC Radio guys during the thick of it—- on strike. Onya, ya bunch of clowns!
Posted by pick-your-pun on 2005 12 13 at 06:04 PM • permalinkSo let me understand this…
A Catholic church is sprayed with bullets, another Christian church is burnt to the ground, and I’ve heard of NO mosques being attacked, yet the press insists this is about race?
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2005 12 13 at 06:05 PM • permalinkAn uber-nudist since she(?) was 20 with the last picture of her wearing clothes being 1988…With tanlines?
That pic also features the name of a Japanese actress (of some sort… one link asks if you want to see her movies “uncensored”) and the tag of a “scanner”, indicating it was nabbed from Usenet.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2005 12 13 at 06:10 PM • permalinkEveryone on The Age today, from Michelle Grattan down to super-dweeb columnist Rachel Buchanan, is blaming Howard for the ‘race riots’—via race-inspired ‘border control’, children overboard, “Tampa” etc.
On p6 today 14/12/05 The Financial Review reports (of course, The Age carries no report of this): “Politicians Excused”
Australia’s top public servant yesterday called on people to stop blaming politicians for the mistakes of the public service. The secretary of the Department of Prime Minister & Cabinet, Peter Shergold, said administrative failure was to blame for the children overboard affair and the mistreatment of Cornelia Rau and Vivian Alvarez Solon. “The grievous failures were one of managerial control,” Dr Shergold told a Sydney Institute forum last night. “The mistakes are failures of public administration, not instances of government conspiracy.”
Shergold’s conclusion is also corroborated by the David Marr/Marion Wilkinson book “Dark Victory”—although the authors’ agenda was actually to attack the evil Howard/Ruddock axis. (Facts can be awkward allies).
The Age (excluding Sunday Age and Letters and other non-archived pieces), has run at least 70 ‘children overboard’ references in the past year - and this is FOUR years after the asylum seekers sabotaged their boat which sank next day and put the kids into the ocean.
Incidentally, notice how in Fairfax press the expression “Tampa” is being used as a shorthand condemnation of Howard—for what? I thought the Tampa asylum seekers intimidated the Tampa captain via threats of violence and a crisis flowed from that.For years “Aussies” have been accused of racism by many, many different groyps some publicly funded.
ANY criticism by a nominaly white person would be written off as racist.
This meant that legitimate problems were given the same treatment as ratbags and far right nutters. Guess what? Its backfiring, young people are saying If Im going to be attacked for stating any of my views I may as well be as offensive as possible and yell a few sig heils.
By shutting down any form of debate with the whackos AND normal aussies by screaming racism at them drives some ordinary folk into at least dabbling with the fringe elements.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2005 12 13 at 06:36 PM • permalinkYeah Rob, it’s of manga grlll Hiromi Anzai.
I have to hand it to Sonia whatever, she/he found a great way to act like a brat and get away with it…At least with guys.
...Also classic that ‘Crooks and Liars’ is top of our new Tongan princess’ blogroll.
Mrs. Belle’s movie reviews seem to all be from sickboy88’s Pirate Bay upload catalogue too.
<Don’t ask how I know that>I wonder how the predominantly Christian population takes to that 24/7 nudist de Sade schtict?
Anyway, the damn magic of thinking that Sonia could possibly exist is ruined now that I have an image of a naked Tongan royal (sweating over a keyboard) stuck in my head.
By shutting down any form of debate with the whackos AND normal aussies by screaming racism at them drives some ordinary folk into at least dabbling with the fringe elements.
Bingo. If anyone’s ever wondered what’s fuelling the rise (or return) of far-left and far-right groups and parties in Europe, I daresay the current Eurocratic tendency to declare basically everything of importance “beyond the pale” and “outside of civilized discussion” has rather a lot to do with it. I hope Australia doesn’t go the same way, but that requires some honest assessment of why this is happening (and definitely doesn’t require reinforcing the kind of happy-crappy illusions that spek was pushing yesterday).
Of course, academia and the MSM are mostly out to lunch (or to strike) on this one, as usual, so there’s not much to expect from those quarters.
RebeccaH, the Carthaginians are a ruthless lot.
I looked at “sonia’s” profile, and a more fake one couldn’t be imagined.
Posted by Some0Seppo on 2005 12 13 at 07:33 PM • permalink#17 I think your initial question was fair. I’m a regular reader of this site and I couldn’t say what Tim’s opinion is, although I think he would probably share the general sentiment of his contributors.
As for how long it takes to be an Aussie, as far as I’m concerned, its not really a matter of time, its attitude – an essential part of which is accepting, or at least tolerating, the mores of the society in which you live. One of these mores is the concept of a fair go – roughly translated as everyone gets a chance until he proves himself unworthy. Its really a no brainer – fit in or fuck off. But its apparent that many of the lebmos thugs rampaging in the streets do not do not accept this. That’s why they are a far greater concern to me than the aussie beach trash lounging around Cronulla. Of even greater concern is whether the state political and social leadership and bureaucrats have the spine to tackle the problem. The good news is that they are running out of hiding places. There’s a long way to go to fix this problem and, as usual, it will have to be done in the face of staunch opposition from progressives.#36 Rob Crawford
So let me understand this…
A Catholic church is sprayed with bullets, another Christian church is burnt to the ground, and I’ve heard of NO mosques being attacked, yet the press insists this is about race?
#39 davo,
ABC SBS commentary on unitid Church burning
“A strange phenomenon know in science as spontaneous combustion occured in Auburn this morning…..”
I’m expecting a line about “drunken yobbos rioters can tell a church from a mosque…”
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 12 13 at 08:00 PM • permalinkCatholic Archbishop George Pell has warned gangs of Middle Eastern descent not to target Christmas celebrations, after families were abused and gunshots fired into cars at a primary school’s carols night in western Sydney on Monday [12 Dec].
Cardinal Pell said the attack in the multicultural suburb of Auburn, where Lebanese Muslims are believed to have turned on Lebanese Christians, was “apparently motivated by religious intolerance”. He said: “I am deeply concerned about the targeting of Christmas celebrations at schools for students as young as five years old…”
Cardinal Pell said the attack in the multicultural suburb of Auburn, where Lebanese Muslims are believed to have turned on Lebanese Christians, was “apparently motivated by religious intolerance”.
That ought to dispel a substantial portion of the “racism!” media headlines, but don’t bet on it.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 12 13 at 08:17 PM • permalink#46 - Allied to that is that one characteristic of Aussies is that we detest complainers of any race or nationality. British migrants have come in for plenty of stick over the decades, qv, the ‘whingeing pom’. Prejudice against our own natives is not so much their race or colour but that they don’t appear to do anything constructive, only complain. “Australian” Australians who do nothing but complain are often friendless too.
Posted by walterplinge on 2005 12 13 at 08:26 PM • permalink“Wouldn’t it be easier to ship both sets of thugs off to some faraway island where drunken violence and cop-bashing are acceptable cultural norms? The UK perhaps?”
Perhaps it’s insensitive to note that if the police had been doing this with the leb thugs years ago this situation wouldn’t have arisen today?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 12 13 at 08:27 PM • permalinkIt’s funny when anglo thugs beat up anybody of middle eastern appearance, who probably have no connection with the previous week’s incidents, there are cries of ‘racism’.
When lebanese thugs beat up anglos, who probably have no connection to the prevous day’s incidents, there are no cries of ‘racism’.
Funny, I thought that if group A attacked group B because of their appearance and if group B attacked group A because of their appearance then both groups were guilty of racism. But the good old media seems to be convinced that only people of white european descent, and possibly the Japanese, can be guilty of racism.
That ought to dispel a substantial portion of the “racism!” media headlines, but don’t bet on it.
Spiny, in the alternate universe of the far left, “race” = “religion” = “culture”, doncha know? Thus, Cardinell Pell is likely to be labeled as an intolerant racist, when in fact he is not.
Rob, monkeyfan—good catch on sonia. While I don’t mind seeing nekid wimmin*, that blog is difficult to follow, in graphics and text, and I didn’t bother to follow any links (hell, where would they go?). I think you have it right, “sonia” probably isn’t sonia, but some nudist wannabe.
But I am a sucker for a pretty
facebodyladysomething......Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 13 at 08:34 PM • permalink*spelling and pronunciation a token red neck activity. wronwright, please log this in.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 13 at 08:36 PM • permalinkI know what the problem is.
The poor yobbos are not racist, they are disenfranchised and misunderstood. We need to find a facilitator and bring on the mediation between the muslim community and the surfers.
After all, there is a massive breakdown in communication going on here, people.
Let’s get talking. With luck, we can talk enough to make it go away.
/sarc
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 12 13 at 08:38 PM • permalinkFor those interested in another NSW Copper’s perspective on the whole sad sorry saga of the ongoing cultural conflict in Sydney, the open letter from an anonymous Sydney police officer in today’s Daily Telegraph:
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17560765-5001030,00.htmlIt’s enough to make you weep.
I should know, I’ve been a NSW Copper for 13 years, and I’ve had plenty of run-ins with Leb gangsters and drug dealers. Back then they were scared of the cops, because we were allowed to go hard and had the backing of our superiors. Ever since the Wood Royal Commission everything has gone downhill. The current crop of police management posses little operational experience, and get around with their heads up their arses. They regard operational police with contempt and disdain. The same goes for most of the judiciary, and for that matter, the media. Cop hating has become an artform, and now society is paying the cost. Experienced operational police are leaving the job at a rate of knots.
Policing in this state has become a disgrace.
Bring back the biff.
Two churches attacked. One in Auburn had its windows smashed. Another church, a Uniting church, was fire-bombed and destroyed.
Also, man in Ryde (I think it was) was asked by a group of young men, “if he was Australian?” “Yes”, he replied. They then bashed him and smashed his car windscreen.
YES, THE RACISM CONTINUES!#57 - or, as Henry Root termed it, “interrogation around the groin”.
Posted by walterplinge on 2005 12 13 at 08:52 PM • permalinkROFL kae, well said.
On this topic of racism in Aus, I was out shopping this morning, and had to get some keys cut. While waiting, I asked the bloke looking after my keys what he thought of the whole thing. He didn’t really know much, since he didn’t watch telly and hadn’t read a paper in a couple of days.
Talking about racism in general, he mentioned that a lebanese lady in one of the other stores comes by sometimes, and bleats about how dirty and immoral aussies are. He seemed offended by that.
I wonder why?
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 12 13 at 09:02 PM • permalinkPersonally, I bet ‘Sonia’ is actually Fred from Melbourne, 53 years old, public service clerk all his life until sacked by the Kennett government, now trying to get on the internet porn bandwagon a little late. “I’ll just wander from blog to blog, drumming up business for my free site, but once I get enough potential customers, tee hee, well US$10 a month wouldn’t be unreasonable for my tasty erotic images (that I’ve stolen from other sites) ...”
Oh, and if you really are a Pacific-island dwelling free-love nudist chick with, apparently, no need to work for a living ... then I’m very happy for you. But instead of asking silly questions about migrants, could you please tell us how to achieve such a lifestyle?
And if you really are 37 and look just like the photo, then MEGA-CONGRATULATIONS: you’ve discovered the secret of eternal youth!
Posted by Lionel Mandrake on 2005 12 13 at 09:07 PM • permalinkI think there is defiantly a case of ordinary Australians feeling fed up and sick of the same old victimist crap that seems to be spewing from the Islamic community. Along with the cry wolf, double standards that have been imposed by our very own champagne socialists and civil libertarians lobbyist. Put simply aussies don’t like cry babies!
Muslims have chosen not to integrate with mainstream Australia, and in the process have attacked the principals that we hold dear, of a society of Co-operation, fairness, mateship and tolerance.
Diggers have fought many wars since federation for our freedom and for other peoples around the world. This has rubbed off on the psyche of most Australians and there is a strong underlying sense of pride and patriotism in our country and the principals that our county men have defended and died for.
Mainstream Australia feels that our way of life is threatened and that we need to defend ourselves. The people have spoken will the politicians take note? …
(copied this off my blog [i know another shameless plug, but agin i think it is relevent])
Re: #58
None of the things I mentioned in my earlier comments were mentioned on the ABC’s Midday Report. No surprises there!
They spent much more time on the latest decision in the David Hicks saga, ‘secret CIA flights’ and the execution of 4 time murderer, and multiple Nobel peace-prize nominee, Stanley ‘Tookie’ Williams. No surprises there either!
Jesus!The real lesson of all this: That there is already a large, well-organised and violent Mahommentan Fifth Column in Australia, and we had better do something about it quick.
Posted by Susan Norton on 2005 12 13 at 10:01 PM • permalinkPicture this. Aussie sheilas lying on beach in bikinis. Males of Middle Eastern appearance walk past and comment “She ain’t worth 55 years”. Aussie sheilas pull out copies of Koran from beach bag, open up and proceed to eject a grotty slag in the middle of it, slam shut whilst staring at MOMEA.
Two can play at that game?
Gangs of Lebanese males have terrorised Sydney-siders, particularly women, for 20 years.
One of the girls at work - who is of Mediterranean appearance - was telling me of the abuse she has copped from cars full of Lebanese “hoons” (her term) when walking with her (white) boyfriend.
Yep, there’s racism out there alright.
And Loewenstein is a slimeball. But we knew that already.
Holy crep. Did anyone else read how the dirtbags over at Loewenstein’s site are reacting to Neo-Lefty Chick?
Paraphrasing: “I’m sorry you had that experience, but if you try to make any decisions based on that, then you’re a pig-ignorant racist.”
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2005 12 13 at 10:12 PM • permalinkRob
I left a post over there about the shameful treatment given Neo-lefty chick. I told them that the use of the word “hysteria” was sexist (which the old feminists used to pound down our throats; works both way, eh?) and that their behavior sounded like a newer version of “she was asking for it” or “how were you dressed?”
77: no point - “those who have the most to lose do the least to prevent its happening:”, whatever “it” may be; that explains brown’s perverse behaviour. all credit to reagan for “a time for choosing”; i love that line from it
71: one thing that shits me is when retards on the left (oops, that’s redundant, sorry) take up this one right-of-centre cause, e.g. pro-second-amendment liberals in the US or in this case, some dumbass who probably her whole life has subscribed (and probably still does subscribe) to the usual left-of-centre crap that gives gangs like these the oxygen to survive, then when everything fucks up for her (“I have been a victim of their awful intimidation”) she agrees with the right on something.
if she’s too dumb to figure out that it’s being on the left and believing their retarded shit that’s got society (and by extension, her) into this hole re gangs etc (as per her own testimony), well, that’s her fault. i have zero sympathy.
Posted by benson swears a lot on 2005 12 13 at 11:20 PM • permalinkJanet Albrechtson, today’s Australian “Racism is repulsive” and Editorial today’s Australian “Racism not endemic”.
Good points in these.
“And State Parliament will be recalled tomorrow to give police emergency powers to lock down parts of Sydney, ban the sale of alcohol, conduct random searches and confiscate vehicles.”
Ban the sale of alcohol? In Oz? Are they trying to start a revolution? What’s Strine for Bastille?
(I do hope the budget will stand this use of bolding.)
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2005 12 13 at 11:44 PM • permalink#77 mr magoo
Someone should tell Bob Brown, bleating about how John Howard has mired Australia in racism (today’s Australian), that fundamentalist Moslems also like bashing gays.
According to Loony Left Logic, Lebanese Muslims are an “oppressed minority”, therefore cannot be held accountable for anything.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 12 13 at 11:50 PM • permalinkAs others have posted, the list of people these Islamics hate is very long as it contains everyone and everything which is not them. They are among the most repressed and repressive people on the planet. They detest gays, atheists, and polytheists almost as much as they do apostate Muslims.
Why is it that the Left supports what amounts to an ultra-orthodox reactionary religious group which is what they historically have fought against? Yet here they are supporting the biggest hate group in the world. Well, let me posit this: it isn’t strange at all. The Left, after all, embraced Stalinism. They brushed aside all information on the mass killings, the gulag, the purges, all of it rather than be convinced that a Socialist Utopia did not exist. They have consistently supported oppressive regimes in the name of necessity, the old “in order to make an omlette” theory from Mao and Pol Pot to Ho Chi Minh, Kim Jong Il and Castro. Yet these regimes at least made/make a pretense to Socialist egalitarianism. The Islamists make no such pretense, in fact quite the opposite. Oh, they promise a Utopia all right (I believe that Utopianism is at the root of all of this, btw), a Utopia based on spreading the law of Sharia to the ends of the Earth. This will entail the murder of tens, no, hundreds of millions of people. Think of the Hindus alone: 700,000,000 right there. (Get those knives sharpened, Ali!) As some have theorized, we may be in a new Hundred Years War.
The Left hasn’t a leg to stand on. They have abandoned any claims they may historically have had to be the ‘voice of the voiceless’ in society (actually, they did that with Roe v. Wade and their support for abortion, abandoning a cornerstone of liberal thought). They now have sunk to supporting what may be arguably the most repressive, sexist, homophobic, intolerant, murderous, and generally hateful people in mankind’s collective memory. The Left has no credibility left. They shot their wad with their support for Stalin, for that matter, but in case anyone believed the Left had any credibility remaining at all, this ought to be the last shoveful of dirt on its coffin.
Thank you. My traffic has increased almost 900%.
I can see the headline in tomorrow’s Sydney Sun-Times (or whatever it’s called):
SONIA BELLE EXPOSED AS A FRAUD
Nude blogger actually wears clothes
The story on beach riots on page 7.You can read all about it here on my blog. No offending pictures on that page, Andrea.
Posted by sonia belle on 2005 12 14 at 12:15 AM • permalinkSemi-on-topic ...
Tookie Williams went to his richly-deserved (and too-long-delayed) death last night. And, despite much breathless tizzying from certain idiotarians predicting ‘racial unrest,’ no signs of the dreaded Wrath of the African-American Street have been forthcoming. Of course, unlike Tookie’s partisans, said Street consists of the poor black citizens who suffer the most from the predations of gangs such as the Crips. For some reason, they have zilch sympathy for the Crips’ founder. Funny how that works.
Thank you. My traffic has increased almost 900%.
Okay, one too many of these, you are clearly using this site to promote your blogspot porn-spam blog. Good bye, “sonia.”
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 12 14 at 12:40 AM • permalink#85
You’re right about that, that is their immediate and present reason. But I do believe that in the larger view and the longer run, it is their willingness to embrace dictatorships and coddle malefactors that is the fundamental ground they share. They were doing this long before G. BushHitler McChimpyBurton became president and radical Islamism became the force it is today.
Of course, since Stalin’s time a portion of the Left decided that America was reactionary and always took the antithetical stance. The brief interlude of WWII put them with America against fascism, but now they have embraced fascism, not only because it is anti-American fashion but because they believe that the fascism they embrace isn’t fascism at all. They make the excuse that the Islamofascists are misunderstood and discriminated against. Thus, whatever kind of system or society they have conjured is merely a response to this, ignoring completely, as the person called “spek” did, the history of Islam which clearly shows the trail of blood they have tracked through history, the extreme sexist society they have created, and the oppressive regimes which they have installed everywhere they have gained power.
Achillea,
Spot on, that. The average African-American has no sympathy for Mr. Williams, in fact, the Average African-American hates people like him and does not believe in all the fake-emotion “he’s a changed man” depositions from Hollywood lunatics like Mike Farrell and Jesse J.
I love the “African-American Street.” Perfect.
I think you have to include in the equation -the lefts’ obsession with multiculturism at any cost.
What are the roots of this obsession?
The belief that a civilised western civilsation must “atone’ for the evils it has perpetrsated on the third world through imperialism.
The fact that islam has a history than is far more horrific than ours is ignored either on purpose or through sheer ignorance of history.
the belief that our politicians are corrupt and degenerate and the country should be run by “intellectuals” such as chomsky or the likes of John Pilger.
Our society has been badly corrupted by the leftists who have infected the unis, news media and are now a serious danger to our defence against the attack of islamists.
in the case of islam, multiculturism for all its glory will always fail. Even cults like the Amish, or the krishnas who have chosen to isolate themselves and not to accept our culture have caused no problems.
They do not seek as a prerequisite of their religion to dominate and convert us by terror or deceitful propaganda.
One of the areas of optimism is the apostasy of so many muslims who realise the horrors of their religion. many of their testimonies are at the faithfreedom web site and are extremely harrowing to read.
The left is also being plagued by apostasy as many realise that it has little to do with the old style socialism and is now a fifth column within Australia.
Tim has pointed this out in the declinig traffic that these sites receive.
When the wonderful Peter Finch stuck his head out of the window and Shouted “I;ve had enough and i’m not taking this anymore”
he was voicing what the majority of clear thinking Australian think todaySorry to be nitpicky, but I don’t think Islamic extremists are ‘fascists’. Fascism is a specific political doctrine that took 19th century socialist dogma, overlaid it with right-wing principles of patriotism and duty, and then threw a hefty helping of racism and anti-semitism into the pot.
Saddam and the Ba’ath party were indeed fascists. But not OBL and similar: they seem to want to return to some sort of Medieval caliphate. And unless I’m mistaken, there were no fascists around in the Middle Ages.
I don’t think the Sydney Lebanese thugs are ‘Islamofascists’ either. They’re just a violent criminal gang, which probably derives far more of its culture from western gangsta rap than from the Koran. As Tim Priest wrote in Quadrant, “What we are seeing is the copying of Los Angeles gangs: the Crips, the Bloods and others. The motor vehicles, the music, the dress codes, the haircuts, the weaponry and the attitudes towards authority are almost identical.”
I don’t in the slightest support or condone these scum - but if we want to defeat the enemy, we’ve got to try to understand them rather than lumping them all into some vague homogenous category of ‘Islamofascist’.
Posted by Lionel Mandrake on 2005 12 14 at 02:06 AM • permalinkdavo and larrikin
I had forgotten the Hitler-Stalin Pact. The Left jumped right over with Stalin. Hitler himself once remarked that he thought National Socialism and Soviet Socialism were really very much alike and that he could work with Stalin. Of course, then he attacked him, so you can’t trust old Adolph.
On the bright side, I think we are putting together a rather good checklist on the patient’s symptoms sheet.
Davo, I hope that you’re right about a mass apostasy. One theory I’ve had about Islam is its lack of a Luther. Without a Luther there is no Reformation. Without a Reformation, there is no challenge to established authority. That is what we have today in Islam. The entrenched mullahs run the show without opposition. Islam is overdue for a real shakeup, not just another Sunni-Shi’ite style schism but a total upending. That is when the West had its Renaissance and ultimately came out from under the rough thumb of religion. I know that many Muslims are fed up with the strict authoritarianism that is inflicted upon them in every single aspect of their lives. As you have said, there are websites devoted to these fed-up people. It will take a great many of them to make this happen, however.
ekw
as i understand it, the Koran cannot be “revised” because it is the direct word of Allah as told to Moh by the angel Gabriel.
The Bible on the other hand is not regarded as the direct word of god and can therefore be reformed.
The suras and hadiths i believe are another matter.
Correct me if i’m wrong.A yob is a yob is a yob.
I read a quote by James Jupp in the Herald Sun saying something to the effect that it was a clash of hoon cultures.
That seems like a fair analysis to me.
Posted by Major Anya on 2005 12 14 at 03:30 AM • permalinkLionel, you make a good point which I will concede you, but only partly. While not true fascists in an historical way, the Lebanese thugs do display some of these characteristics. The ideas of mass murder, subsuming of the individual into the vast body of the state - which to the Islamists is Dar al Islam - and returning to the greatness of the Caliphate, these things belong to these young men’s elders. While not, perhaps, exactly fascist, there are enough similarities there to give me that impression. But I will bow to your wisdom with the caveat that these Lebanese exhibit racism, and they also carry dogmatic Islamist ideology when they attack Western women for wearing skimpy beachwear. Of course, in this global culture they are copying American blacks because it resonates with youth. I think it may still be mostly a fashion statement and that they are still Islamic youth indoctrinated, at least to some extent, in Quranic absolutism.
As to the desire of OBL and his lot, yes, they are reactionaries who wish to return to the days of the First Caliphate which was actually much earlier than the Middle Ages. It’s initial form existed during the first years after the Prophet’s death in 632. This corresponds to the time Western historians refer to as the Dark Ages. These Salafists are close to fascists in this regard: they want a return to a time when Islam was pure and unsullied by centuries of deviancy, corruption, and neglect. Hitler was also a reactionary who believed the world corrupt - through the activities of the Capitalist Jews - and who wished to recreate the mythological past of the Teutonic gods. He hated Christianity - a religion he found weak and effeminate - and he believed in purity. His purity was racial, the modern Salafists’ purity is religious. While, as you say, not strictly fascist, there is a good resemblance there.
The Lebs are thugs who have taken in a rather poisonous mixture of American Crips-Thug-Gangsta culture and radical Islamist culture. I have no idea which way they may go in the future. I’m not sure I want to know.
Davo,
You’re right. The Quran is received wisdom directly from God to the Prophet. The Bible is a collection of stories and records some of which were directly inspired by God, but not dictated by God. The four synoptic Gospels are believed to be directly inspired by God and the most holy of Christian scripture; they are left in the form decided, I think, at the Council of Nicea. The Canon was set at that council and cannot be altered.
Hoon means hooligan. Other possible options are yoboo, drongo, yahoo, larrikin (a controversial choice because it can be a positive), Westie, bogan and just plain dickhead.
Bluntly, I think religion and race is a factor but it is not the whole story. To put in bluntly, I grew up with someone who could safely be called any of the aforementioned names and it wasn’t any picnic at Lakeemba mosque. He was an Aussie yob.
These boofheads, regardless of race, have being getting away with treating other people like garbage for years. When I see those blokes in packs fueled by booze, it frightens me.
Posted by Major Anya on 2005 12 14 at 04:06 AM • permalinkApologies, I spelt the name of the mosque incorrectly.
Posted by Major Anya on 2005 12 14 at 04:08 AM • permalink#100
Some terms such as yahoo and hoon may in fact come from Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels. An extremely gifted satirist, he used terms like yahoo and houynyms to describe some groups. Yahoo stuck, but perhaps houynyms became shortened. I remember it used most often to describe louts in fast cars. Sorry, Tim!In the UK, we are (or were) unaware of the increasing gangsta-like behaviour of certain ethnic groups (it would appear to be Lebanese Muslims in Sydney’s case) and i notice that a number of the comments compare them to the gangs of LA.
What i cannot understand is what has happened to the parental influence of these groups? In the Caribbean communities living in London, gangs flourish largely because of the absence of fathers. However, i was under the impression that Muslim families largely stayed together.
Are the young men rebelling against their parents or are the parents silently complicit?
Posted by pommygranate on 2005 12 14 at 06:36 AM • permalinkGoll-y.Just as well those anti riot laws searching houses and people and cars and closing down neighbourhoods AREN’T ANTI TERRORIST LAWS. If they were they wouldn’t be passed (screams of outrage from Greens bob and Dems Bartleweet and Spot destroya,not to mention the Labor Party.)
They would be debated and altered and weakened no end and thrown out.
Amazing how neccesity concentrates the mind and the will.#108
It is when the parents are noisily complicit that you really worry.
Dysfunctional imports have disrupted Australia (and other countries) before. We had the Serb v. Croat thing here for many years, which was bad enough.
The current problems are worse, and I blame the parents, along with the entire dysfunctional culture and ideology which came along with them.Muslim mother on abc news"It’s about time we Muslim women took over and took our sons’ car keys”—good onya Mum…well said.
The catholic church primary school group was Lebanese christians plus Philipino,Chinese and anglo children of Christian faith.
The verbal harassers and bullet firer’s were Lebanese Muslims.
ABC today “Adelaide man”—David Hicks….
SBS tonight gushes as first item on news..David Hicks on the pathway to FREEDOM etc..Mostly referred to by public broadcasters as “DAVID”.
Don’t come back here Hicks,you have become non Australian-a feat not many offenders achieve.Van Nguyen for instance died an Australian.One of the ‘current affairs’ shows had an Aussie muslim mum* on talking about how women and mothers are so respected in their culture and it’s about time they took a hand in their kids’ behaviour. Lots of talk about maybe a curfew, taking away mobile phones, and a talking to. Not saying that it will happen, just that they’re thinking of it.
*Aussie muslim mum as in definitely skip/anglo origin, not middle-east. Needless to say, I was shocked by that. Obviously needing to put a multiethnic spin on all this.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 12 14 at 08:06 AM • permalinkCatholic Archbishop George Pell has warned gangs of Middle Eastern descent not to target Christmas celebrations
I have no doubt the “gangs of Middle Eastern descent” are absolutely shitting themselves…
#65
I think there is definitely a case of ordinary Australians feeling fed up and sick of the same old victimist crap that seems to be spewing from the Islamic community
Oh really? In today’s Australian:
Waleed Aly of the Victorian Islamic Association warned that events of the past few days could radicalise young Muslim men and encourage them to adopt more extreme forms of Islam.
“But extremist discourse feeds on persecution complex, so any kind of event which feeds into that narrative makes things worse in terms of the security issues.”
Rahman Fadi, an Islamic youth leader, agreed that the situation was feeding extremist agendas.
Am I fair in reading from this that if we do anything about Muslim criminals, they may become terrorists and it will be all our own fault either way?
Am I fair in reading from this that if we do anything about Muslim criminals, they may become terrorists and it will be all our own fault either way?
Yes. Because that’s the line that’s ALWAYS trotted out Muslims come under suspicion.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2005 12 14 at 08:47 AM • permalink#88: Reminds me of the day OJ was acquitted. The news had just been broadcast on the radio as I was driving back to the office after lunch, and the African-American lady working the booth in the garage was in tears. I asked her what the problem was, and she said, “did you hear the news about OJ?”. I said yes, and she blurted out with a bitterness that startled me, “I can’t believe they let that man off. What’s going to become of his children if they have to stay with that monster?” People will surprise you - or maybe it’s more accurate to say that we constantly surprise ourselves when our preconceived notions run head first into reality.
On the prospect of a Muslim Reformtion. We tend to forget that Luther’s intentions were to return to a more pure Chrisitanity based on Scripture, not on those customs that had grown up in the Catholic Church over centuries. The Calvinists went even further in that direction.
When we look at Muslim extremists it is possible that we are seeing the Muslim Reformation. There is no necessary reason that a Muslim Reformation will develop the same as the Christian one. For one thing, since there is no central religioous authority in Islam there is no Papacy to revolt against, which was the cahracteristic attitude of the Christian reformers.
The Salafists and the other flavors of Islamist radicalism are seeking to return to what they imagine is the purity of early Islam. This is also true of the Wahhabis, the most intolerant, bigoted, narrow-minded, and vicious sect in Islam. It is so unpleasant that most other Muslims despise the Wahhabis, but they have huge gobs of oil money to throw around and that buys a lot of cooperation.
Also, I think it was Mark Steyn who pointed out that Muslim religious leaders have seen what the Christian Reformation eventually led to, and will want to avoid that.
So I would put no faith in a Muslim Reformation. What is needed is a liberalization. Islam needs to grow out of its medieval preoccupation with jihad and oppressing women, of being hostile to any other group that is not abjectly subservient to the Muslims. One promising element is that in Iran the Mullahs are making Islam unpopular with many younger Iranians. They may well be ripe for a laicized or liberalized Islam once we can get the Mullahs off their necks.
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2005 12 15 at 02:19 AM • permalink“Am I fair in reading from this that if we do anything about Muslim criminals, they may become terrorists and it will be all our own fault either way?”
It must be hard for the left to admit that locking these people away from civilised society and not letting them back in will ensure that they cannot commit terrorism.
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Perhaps if your Government banned handguns AGAIN…?