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HATE LOVES A VACUUM
Newspaper editors think it’s safer to merely describe the cartoons than to publish them. Think again:
Afghans who rioted Wednesday said they heard about the cartoons on the radio but none questioned had seen printed versions.
“The radio is talking about them all the time. Everybody heard about them this way,” said 28-year-old shopkeeper Ramatullah, who uses only name.
Result: four more Afghans shot dead after crowds marched on a US military base. Interestingly, no riots were provoked by Egyptian newspaper Al Faqr‘s publication of the cartoons last October ...
(Via LGF and Evil Pundit)
Have these nutters got their RADIO and their TELEVISION mixed up?
Posted by WeekByWeek on 2006 02 09 at 05:31 AM • permalinkSomething important has happened at the BBC in the last few days.
for the first time, a BBC journalist has had the courage to apologise for the incompetance of the BBC reseach and give credit to a Blogger for unmasking the treachery of the one of the added cartoons.
His name is Paul Reynolds and he is a breath of fresh air.
Hopefully he will keep his job.
last week Jonathan Dimbleby on Any Answers was unaware of the Fake cartoons even thogh every Blog aware reseacher and the danish PM knew about them.Also, it is aparently beter for a US paper to print a picuture of a black virgin Mary to illustrate a story on the very cartoons they refuse to publish.
Posted by davetherave on 2006 02 09 at 06:01 AM • permalinkARE WE REALLY ALL EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW? pt.1
As Muslims call for greater respect of their religious feelings in the wake of the Mohammed cartoons, I continue to read calls to kill Australians of my faith. This moved me to consider some basic principles of Australia’s democracy. Freedom of speech is a foundation principle, freedom of religion is constitutionally guaranteed and equality before the law is a basic assumption of our justice system.But how do these principles balance out in relation to the following statement in a book purchased at a major bookstore? ‘When the sacred months are over slay the idolators wherever you find them.’ I might be an idolator, am I happy with published calls to murder me?
Most would accept this statement is a literal incitement to murder, which is a serious crime. Under the New South Wales (NSW-Australia’s most populous state) Crimes Act Sect 249F ‘A person who aids, abets, counsels, procures, solicits or incites the commission of an offence…is guilty of an offence…’ Under Sect 2A of the Victorian Crimes Act ‘…incite includes command, request, propose, advise, encourage or authorize…’ Sect 321G states that ‘…where a person …incites any other person to pursue a course of conduct which will involve the commission of an offence…the inciter is guilty…of incitement.’ The cited statement, at the very least, counsels and thereby incites the murder of an ‘idolator’ which is a crime under NSW and Victorian law.
(cont)
ARE WE REALLY ALL EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW? pt.2
Incitement laws restrict freedom of speech, but the context of this statement is religious and the Australian Constitution guarantees freedom of religious observance. Sect 116 states that ‘The Commonwealth shall not make any law …prohibiting the free exercise of religion…’. As with freedom of speech the ‘free exercise’ of religious observance is also limited. Its limits were established in the High Court in 1943 in the Adelaide Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses vs The Commonwealth. The Court found that ‘Freedom of religion is not absolute. It is subject to powers and restrictions of government essential to the preservation of the community. Freedom of religion may not be invoked to cloak and dissemble subversive opinions or practices and operations dangerous to the common weal.’ and that religion was ‘subject to limitations…such as are reasonably necessary for the protection of the community and in the interests of social order’. So, freedom of religion does not grant freedom to commit crime.
Additionally Victoria introduced the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001 to specifically deal with religious vilification. Sect 25 says: ‘A person…must not, on the ground of the religious belief or activity of another person or class of persons, intentionally engage in conduct that the offender knows is likely …to incite hatred…to threaten, or incite others to threaten physical harm towards that person or class of persons…’
If the call to slay idolators was made in an obscure religious text of a tiny sect it might not be a big deal. Its relevance probably depends on whether you are an idolator and whether anyone will carry out the suggested crime.
(cont.)
ARE WE REALLY ALL EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW? pt. 3
The facts are that this statement is made on p133 of The Koran revised and published by Penguin in 2003. It was purchased at Dymocks, one of Australia’s leading bookstores. We know that a number of people around the world, including in Australia, take this direction literally and are likely to carry out its command including: that ‘fighting is ‘obligatory for you…’ p.32; ‘slay or crucify opponents in war’ p.83; and ‘Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them.’ P.146.
Some, currently before Australian courts, allegedly quoted the Koran to incite Australian adherents to allegedly participate in intended crimes. Perhaps Australian victims of the Bali bombings, London and 9/11 should mount class actions against the publishers of the Koran on the grounds that they knowingly distributed this incitement to murder. To underline the strength of such a case the defence of England’s most fiery Imam, Abu Hamza, is currently arguing that his calls to kill infidels was based on the obligatory teachings of the Koran. Clearly no publisher has any excuse in the current environment that they didn’t understand the implications of what they publish.
So freedom of speech and religion are limited by laws including incitement. But how does this balance with the democratic principle of equality before the law?
Take this simple test: could you publish a direction to kill Muslims wherever you find them simply because they are Islamic? I doubt anyone in Australia would publish such a direction and if they did you and the publisher would promptly, and quite properly, be prosecuted. Two Victorian Pastors were charged for comparatively frivolous ‘offences’ under Victoria’s religious vilification law last year. To date we have heard of no Australian Muslims being similarly charged or even investigated.
ARE WE REALLY ALL EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW? Pt. 4
Equally no one has been charged for the violent assaults and drive by shooting of a Christian primary school’s Christmas Carols ceremony and subsequent arson attacks on churches throughout Sydney in December 2005 including the destruction of at least one church. I doubt anyone ever will be charged due to the extremely limited media coverage of these post Cronulla hate crimes and the consequent lack of public outrage. As a result the majority of Australians lose confidence in the protection of the police, the administration of law and consequently their equality before the law.
This feeds a growing belief that there is one law for Muslims and another for everyone else. This view provides fertile ground for vigilantism and the grievance based crime that occurred in Cronulla. People who lose faith in the law are more likely to take it into their own hands making it critically important to reinforce the assumption of equality before the law.
The cited examples are a clear prima-facie breach of the NSW and Victorian criminal code and Victoria’s Religious Vilification Laws. The Koran includes other examples of vilification and incitement on the grounds of gender, sexuality, race and religion. I am not aware of any comparable incitement through direct instruction in any other major religious text.
I cannot use my real name as I live and work amongst Muslims. Their intimidation is supported by the Pastors’ prosecution, death ‘fatwas’ issued worldwide against Islam’s critics and set against a backdrop of anti Australian rape and violence in Sydney.
Premiers Iemma and Bracks need to demonstrate whether they believe in equality or condone discrimination. They must dispel the widely held view that Muslims are favoured before the law in NSW and Victoria. The test for their governments is not to make new laws but rather to equally apply existing ones. A good starting point to prove that the ALP still believes in equality of all before the law is to refer publishers of the Koran to the DPP for breaching their respective State’s criminal laws. It is simply not acceptable to have anyone publishing a call for the murder of anyone else in contemporary Australia.
(Ends)
Jane Doe that was both reasoned and valuable. I feel vaguely bothered about what I want to say which is off topic, particularly following such an impassioned post. But then I think ru486 is about rights of women and considering the biggest losers under Islamism are women maybe appropriate.
I learn from Andrew Bartlett on LP the following. The only problem I have with his comment is, For trivia buffs.
For trivia buffs, I believe this is the first Private Senators Bill in the names of 4 Senators from four different parties (all of whom also happen to be women). If it does pass both Houses, it will be just the ninth Private Senators Bill to pass into law since Federation.
All those billions of euros paid to islamic terrorists in Danegeld and welfare by the euroweenies, all those islamic asylum swindlers they let in, all that islamic overbreeding they subsidised, all that diplomatic support for the islamic, anti-American agenda, and it’s all undone by a manufactured campaign of outrage over a cartoon. It kind of makes you think that appeasing totalitarianism is futile, doesn’t it? Who would have guessed.
Posted by Jim Geones on 2006 02 09 at 07:04 AM • permalinkThis feeds a growing belief that there is one law for Muslims and another for everyone else.
Indeed such is the case from the Muslim perspective and of course multiculturism taken to the extreme does mean that we must tolerate the untolerable.
If we pursue this path we might as well save time and possibly much blooletting and hoist the black flag of Islam over Canberra and denigrate our democracy and freedoms so as to facilitate sharia law’s enactment.
But i see the rise in Islamic miltancy as a direct attack on the west and on the west’s muslims.
The hate filled Mullahs who emerge from Medina and Mecca’s universities spread throughout Dar al Harb to repair the “damage done by western society to its muslims. So all those fallen muslims who have taken infidel freinds and enjoy freedoms they never had must be brought back into line.
The cartoon episode manufactured for Islamic consumption has therefore a dual purpose.
to install contempt and hatred of the infidel in those “fallen” muslims in western society.
to define the fault lines of western resistance in the press and governments thus establishing its weaknesses for further actions.
it should be by now plainly obvious that there is no moral equivalance argument which will hold any water in the islamic mind and it is a waste of effort to actually point to such self evidence for anyone but our own benefit.
Islam sees only the culture of honour, and honour forbids rational argument . it forbids feelings of guilt and only the shame must be acted upon.
This is why the slighest tiny insult must be dealt with with blood.
But we in the west, have a culture of Guilt.
So when we are attacked we seek to appease the attackers and excuse them from even the most hideous of attacks.SBS :All Danish cartoonists gone into hiding,advised by the intelligence service.
The bbc presenter asks the rhetorical question “They ask themselves did I do the right thing!” and “The Danish p.m. is standing firm EVEN THOUGH (as I put it to him)OVER TWELVE PEOPLE HAVE NOW DIED ” (because of the pm’s actions presumably-my words).
“there have been strident attacks against immigration in Denmark.They (Muslims) have become mentally exhausted.The government no longer trusts the top imams.”
Meanwhile zzzbzzzz actually exerted themselves to show a bbc programme on Corruption to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars by some of the government in Kenya.A story we have already heard? The poor guy who is the whistleblower probably had a harder time trying to get the beeb to do a story on it than dodging threats in his own country.David Warren did a great summary of the nonsense behind the riots. And it is insane. Is Islam the dumbest religion ever? Probably not, but its adherents currently are the dumbest people on the face of the earth.
Hey, lookee here! A picture of Muhammad!
/>:o(>
Oh, no! Worse! A picture of him holding a bomb!
-@c
/>:o(>I guess we’re all dead now.
Years ago, Gary Trudeau did a cartoon against a flag-burning amendment by running a bunch of drawings of the U.S. flag, asking if it would be against the law to throw out the newspaper. I thought he had a good point, much as I hated to admit it. What are the odds he’ll address this issue with a nifty drawing of the Prophet?
Bravo Jane. When will the law be applied? Mr Iemma, Commissioner Moron….ey are you there? Commissioner Nixon Mr Bracks? Hello, can you hear us - your constituents?
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 09 at 07:27 AM • permalinkDon’t worry Ross. Insanity is not totally confined to Islam. My “Wankers at Work” file is literally brimming with equally irrational crud.
A work colleague of mine, who is not a Muslim, actually said me that:
“Muslims have a right to act the way they have [in response to the cartoons] because their country has been invaded by the United States of America”
And before anybody asks: no, I don’t work in a sheltered workshop.
“Muslims have a right to act the way they have [in response to the cartoons] because their country has been invaded by the United States of America”
That is a prime example of a statement from someone who belongs to the culture of GUILT
“Honour demands that we admonish Islam with such cartoons,for the terror and mayhem they have caused in our society”
Would be the statement from someone who belongs to the culture of honour.
This is exactly what we hear fron islamists.(in the opposite)Methinks its a case of any excuse to riot and burn Western property.
Posted by Andrew Ian Dodge on 2006 02 09 at 08:13 AM • permalinkMethinks its a case of any excuse to riot and burn Western property.
ITYM “kaffir” instead of “Western”.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 02 09 at 08:19 AM • permalink“Muslims have a right to act the way they have [in response to the cartoons] because their country has been invaded by the United States of America”
A few possible replies;
1. Since when was Muslimistan a country?
2. Do the Tibetans throw tantrums if their Dalia Lama gets caricatured (their country was invaded).
3. Did Prophet Muhammad have the right to kill those who insulted or poked fun at him while he was busy conquering the arabian peninsular? (consult a koran)The asswipes who infest our own country and support the mussie fanatics are worse in my books than the mussies themselves…
we know pretty much what to expect from mussies, same old tripe blaming us for everything and making out they are the best thing since sliced bread, with the odd murder or attrocity thrown in for good measure…
its our own born and bred scum who circulate amongst us, defending them, and undermining and accusing us, while living in, and enjoying the benefits of our great nations, that truly need to be taken out and beaten with a stick, then put on the first plane out of here to join their pals in the shithole of their choice….
we need to clean up our own turncoat, parasitic crud, before we can do much about these fanatics overseas…
The “asswipes” who infest our society are not worse than those muslims who behead us and bomb our women and children whenever thay are able to.
The asswipes are not killing us - they simply suffer from huge guilt complexes and hate our own society.
Why is this? Because they have been fed an intellectual diet of self hatred by our universites schools and media. And they have swallowed this idiocy that has been taught them over the last thirty years since Vietnam.
Someone has chronicled the number of islamists terrorists attacks since 911 and the figure is around 4500.
Do you think the Muslims feel any guilt over this enormous figure.
Why do you think that they dance around the streets in joy when three thousand are murdered in New york?
What are they celebrating?
They are celebrating the restoration of the honor of Islam which thay deem has been shamed by the infidel. There are no guilt feelings and if there were any,they would blame the attacks on the jews or Bush.
Now imagine that Australians had commited 4000 acts of terrorism in 4 years.
The whole nation would be racked by guilt. Candle light vigils outside Government house. Church leaders outraged, Newspapers condemning in no uncertain terms etc etc.
You already know that if one Hair of a Gitmo inmate is ruffled we get instant worldwide condemnation from the guilt ridden western press.
How can we defend ourselves when we are steeped in a cult of guilt and loathing for our own achievements?I ain’t steeped in anything… except pride for my country and knowledge of all the goods things about us and what we have contributed to others…
I learned a long time ago to not expect anything from the other side, its the people that force the west to fight with one arm behind their back becoz they love to enjoy all our benefits, but support the opponent that should know better, that could educate themselves if they wanted to, the books and newspapers and stuff are out there, they just think they are so much smarter and hyborw than the rest of us and the old fogies…
eg the vietcong may have been the americans enemies in vietnam, but i can sort of see where they were coming from, i don’t agree with them, but they were damn tough fighters… plenty of yanks said they wished the VC were fighting on their side rather than the ineffective ARVN… they were the enemy and i would have fought to defeat them if i had been their…
but theres no way i could forgive jane fonda and the other socialists going over there and sitting on an anti aircraft gun that would be use to kill her own countrymen, then coming back to her millionaire lifestyle in hollywood… she would never have stepped foot back in the US if i had anything to do with it…
after all it was the north vietnamese who predicted that as long as they continued the struggle, it would the US which defeated itself… something most of the US’s enemies now bank on…. they know there are people in the US, Oz etc that will work to undermine us if they can wait long enough….
turncoats and traitors to me are worse than the enemy… the enemy like i said are what they are, a known quantity… i don’t condone the radical mussies actions, their scum of the earth and hypocritical as the day is long, but at least u know who and what they are and what there capable of…
its the chardonnay swilling socialist intelligentsia who use to talk about how wonderful the commie countries were while living in the fancy mansions collecting $50-100k a year as uni professors etc… ignoring the people who risked their lives to tunnel under walls, or paddle across shark infested waters to reach freedom… these phonies and fakes who thought they new so much better are what gets up my nose….
but i guess we can agree to disagree davo….
Hate Loves a Vaccum
And finds a welcoming home ‘twixt Arab ears. Coincidence?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 09 at 10:54 AM • permalinkAnd davo, if we’re splitting hairs, the actions of the radical mussies might be worse than their dopey apologists/supporters here, but the supporters to me represent the greatest danger to the west… the mussies might be able to hurt the west with the odd terrorist incident, but we can only really defeat ourselves…
It’s a Muslim thing. You wouldn’t understand.
Posted by Jim Treacher on 2006 02 09 at 01:37 PM • permalinkJane Doe: What a great argument.. it is a pity that it will be glossed over - it appears that the thread has already gone away from your argument. It is a shame that P2B is not here - I would be interested to see what her reaction to this would be.
“I cannot use my real name as I live and work amongst Muslims.” gee and I thought we lived in a place where Free speech was encouraged
Love the name of the Egyptian newspaper: Al Faqr.
What a bunch of Motherfaqrs.
Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2006 02 10 at 02:08 AM • permalink
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So how exactly does this work- you’re a muslim, you hear that a cartoon of your prophet has appeared in a Danish newspaper so naturally you start smashing things up and marching on American airbases. Is anyone else confused?