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LEFTIST PEACENIK SAMPLER
Australia’s peaceful try to cope with the death of an Australian serviceman in Afghanistan:
Great News, perhaps now there is blood on JH’s hands people will now wake up to these illegal occupations of foreign countries! People are dying or being killed every minute. One soldier dead, well isn’t that one of the risks of being in the forces.
So much for “support the troops”. Here’s Ron from Sydney:
Well thats what happens when you go and invade another person’s country. You should not have been there in the first place, but you can thank Johhny Coward ...
Another person’s country? Who owned Afghanistan? “Big deal,” comments Dan of Qld:
No one forced [David Pearce] to join the army. No one forced him to travel half way around the world to kill Afghanis in their own country. I don’t remember there being any Afghanis on the planes that hit the Trade centres. He joined the army to kill people and he got killed instead. You reap what you sow! If he really cared for his family he would not be there.
I bet Dan of Qld wouldn’t use the “reap what you sow” argument in the case of David Hicks. For that matter, I bet Dan of Qld wouldn’t use the “reap what you sow” argument within range of David Pearce’s family or friends. TR of Sydney hasn’t studied Labor policy:
Get them out of IRAQ and Afghanistan! Simply Vote labor.
Roy Barnes of Croydon Park couldn’t care less:
The day our politicians and defence forces honestly lament the death and carnage they have visited on Iraq and Afghanistan will be the day I spare a thought for the passing of an Australian soldier!
Sweet. Neil of Melbourne is another “blood on your hands” man:
His blood is on your hands Howard!
As is “John Denver”:
Hmm, now John Howard has blood on his hands!! Would Johnny send his son to the middle east??
Actually, the blood is on John Howard’s shoulders. Mike of Hobart scorns soldiering types:
They get paid, they aren’t doing it for free, so please forgive me if i don’t get down and kiss their feet, who do you think keeps the country running so they can come back and spend their money?? it’s the average worker.
Mike may have missed the news: Trooper Pearce isn’t coming back. Tiger of Melbourne joins idiot Mike in hailing average workers:
well big deal, i work hard to pay taxes so you people have the resouces to fight, should i pat myself on the back and tell everyone i risk burning myself out at work to equip the Aussies in Afghanstan?
Life’s tough, Tiger. Please don’t keel over on the photocopier on account of anyone facing down the Taliban. Malcolm of Queanbeyan senses a conspiracy:
Hmmmmmm. Four years at war in two countries and not one casualty resulting from enemy action until Johny needs a poll boost weeks before an election. Johnies rabbit from the hat.
JP of Melbourne isn’t buying into any of this “support the troops” deal:
I also am sick to death of every time a soldier dies, it is a national tragedy. They know the risks when they go overseas to recieve a grossly inflated salary to “defend” our country. The mans wife and family will be looked after by the defence force. What about all the other people who die young, leaving their family behind? But because this guy is in the army, he is automatically a hero? Give me a break.
A break? Hey, a few readers here would happily give you a fracture - skull, spine, anywhere you like. Do not attempt to bring about change, warns Zac of Sydney, for you will be killed:
We need to bring our troops home and place Howard on trial to answer a number of crimes. Until we see somthing like this occur, our country is in the hand of tyrants who will detain, assault, and kill anyone who means to bring about change.
David Pearce was killed while attempting to change Afghanistan from a fascist hell-nation providing cover for mass murderers into something undeserving of annihilation. Karl of Melbourne is yet another unimpressed by our military:
I cannot respect them. These soldiers willingly sign up and take on the risk that they will be required to kill people. Taliban soldiers also sign up and take on the risk that they will be required to kill people. If these people who consider signing up, had any respect for the beauty, fragility, and sanctity of human life, that risk would be enough to deter them from any army. How can I respect troops, when they have no respect for human life?
Karl’s respect for Pearce’s life is achingly evident. Malcolm of ACT fears a military attack on Australian citizens:
The soldier obeys the orders of the establishment, without regards to conscience or morality ... How many of the men at Gallipoli could tell you why they were there to kill Turks in Turkey? They just do as they are told and would turn on us as quick.
Possibly they’d do this out of sheer stupidity, according to Adam of Sydney:
You don’t need any form of intellegence to join the miliatry.
No wonder Chris Sealy writes:
Sometimes I’m ashamed to be a lefty ...
(Via Habib)
But don’t question their patriotism!
Posted by Bruce Rheinstein on 2007 10 09 at 01:16 PM • permalinkI saw something on Ed Driscoll’s excellent blog the other day that’s pertinent (sorry, can’t access Ed’s blog just now, for some reason, but will try to find and link later). I think he may have been referencing a piece by Victor Davis Hanson in which the latter coined the expression “cold civil war”, which is a superb description of the tremendous moral divide that seems to exist between the pro-war and anti-war sides on the homefront (in Australia, the UK and the U.S.) The head-up-your-ass sentiments quoted in this post are a good example of the selfishness and willfull blindness which activates many on the anti-war side, and they underscore the notion I’ve floated before that, in many ways, the toughest battle is the one being waged behind our own lines.
Can you say “Projection?”...
“The difference between the far right wing and the far left wing: the far right will do anything — anything — so long as the ends justifies the means.”
Ashamed to be a lefty? Hell, I read this shit and I’m ashamed to belong to the same species as these fucktards.
Posted by Urbs in Horto on 2007 10 09 at 01:34 PM • permalinkCan we question their patriotism YET!!!!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 10 09 at 01:37 PM • permalinkWell, some of us did join the service (‘68) fully expecting to kill something. After all the training and hype, you get sort of disappointed if you don’t get the opportunity. You do take your chances tho.
As for the left…they’re a different tribe. One that would be extinct without mine.
God knows his own, Digger Pearce. See you later.
A truism:
Evil people do not know that they are evil. In fact, they think they act for the greater good. And that’s it right there: “The greater good” trumps all rights and dignity given to man by God. And… therein lies the evil.
I am way beyond disgust with leftist scum. Not a man-Jack among them owns a valid moral compass.
Well…what can you say…really.
One of the biggest problems relates to the fact that they represent the thinking of a significant percentage of the educational establishment. I am always astounded at the lack of factual foundation in any of their diatribes. Of course, maybe that is one of definitions of diatribe-who knows :).
Maybe I’m not the one to cast aspersions though. Being a conservative I am restricted to bumper sticker concepts and cognitive patterns. Must be nice to venture out in the world of “whole book” thinking. But look on the bright side-something to aspire to!
“Illegal occupation”?
One does wonder which law they think’s been broken.
Australian law surely doesn’t prohibit Australian participation in a UN mandated peacekeeping force, right?
“International law”, such as it exists, likewise tends to bow to UN authority regarding peacekeeping missions.
Of course, this question is purely academic, as I’ve noticed that people ranting about “illegal occupation” or “illegal war” never have an actual legal theory or argument worth addressing.
Which makes it more of a shame that they abuse the terms - the next time there really is an illegal war, they’ll have cried wolf so thoroughly nobody’ll listen.
I’ll second paco. This isn’t a pro-war-anti-war debate. This is the adolescent, arrogant left assuming it’s right and smart and deserves to rule. They couldn’t care less about AQ, freedom, Afghanistan, the horrific abuse of women or any of that. See for yourself: ask any one of them what they’d do differently and you won’t get a coherent answer. They can only rail against Bush and Howard, even when their “arguments” are vapid, incorrect, paranoid and childish. The left is the real menace and we have to fight that “cold civil war.”
Posted by Gary from Jersey on 2007 10 09 at 03:30 PM • permalinkAs I read the comments I envisioned them being spouted off by scrawny geekish Che T shirt wearing vegans of a possibly male gender. While standing outside a pub patronized by strong handsome soldiers receiving friendly attention from attractive ladies.
Posted by wronwright on 2007 10 09 at 03:33 PM • permalinkThese miserable excuses for humanity are always with us, aren’t they?
Kipling understood this better than most when he wrote ‘Tommy’ and spoke of: “makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep”.
I went into a public- ‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
The publican ‘e up an sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
The girls behind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy go away”;
But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins,” when the band begins to play-
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it’s “Thank you Mr Atkins,” when the band begins to play.One can only suppose that these current scum are the grandchildren of those other scum who waged industrial unrest at home when more courageous Australians were burning, bleeding and dying at Kokoda, Buna and Gona. They are beneath our contempt.
I put this together for our troops last Memorial Day, but I think it’s appropriate here…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 10 09 at 04:13 PM • permalink#5 you are absolutely right. Many on the far left are not anti-war, they are on the other side.
The question is why? Why do they spit at our troops and worship Hicks. Is there a common agenda between al-Queda and those that worship “Gaia”? Why do they both hate the West’s modern lifestyle, and why does the left lie through their teeth to do everything it can to stop people from enjoying their life?
Posted by hkcapitalist on 2007 10 09 at 05:19 PM • permalinkWhy do they both hate the West’s modern lifestyle, and why does the left lie through their teeth to do everything it can to stop people from enjoying their life?
They’ve been trained since school began to believe they’re morally superior. They’ll do or say anything to prove it. That’s why they’re so miserable. And shallow. And immature. And nasty. And ...
Posted by Gary from Jersey on 2007 10 09 at 05:35 PM • permalink”...our country is in the hand of tyrants who will detain, assault, and kill anyone who means to bring about change.”
Would Zac of Sydney care to clarify? Which tyrants? Who has been detained, assaulted and killed because they meant to bring about change?
I suspect Zac was a G-8 protestor and is still a little annoyed that he and his rent-a-mob mates weren’t allowed to go on a similar rampage during APEC in Sydney.
Zac and his mates should be drafted for overseas service and sent to a country in which they can really exercise their fantasies.
The Australian educational system, particularly the NSW version, has done a spectacular job. Really enlightened the young, it has.
Yesterday’s paper ran an item by Gerard Henderson IIRC on the so-called suppression of free speech perpetrated on this country by John Howard. Said suppression being claimed by the same trash as cited above, no doubt.
A little self-suppression would be to their own benefit. Better to be silent and thought a fool…Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2007 10 09 at 05:39 PM • permalinkIf we were to apply the same logic as some of these uberdregs, we should be pulling our UN mandated “illegal militaristic nazi occupation forces” out of East Timor - because East Timor has big undeveloped oil and gas fields right on our border. It must be “all about oil”. Don’t remember anyones saying “No Indonesian blood for oil” though at any time since we went in. Might have to get a T-shirt printed by a hippy at the Glebe markets this weekend.
Might also have to mess with a few heads by adopting a head tilt and going along with any loons I encounter and say, “Yes, it’s a shame to think that we only invaded East Timor for its oil. I guess it’s time we pulled out and let the Indonesians take it back.”
And..
“Burma has lots of oil and gas. We mustn’t take any action there either. This government can’t be trusted to do right when oil is involved.”
I have a simple solution. We already have multiple fuel pumps at all servo’s. Simply mandate that all petrol stations must have one pump that sells “bloodless oil”, and make sure it is two or three times the price of the normal stuff. I’m sure the queues at that pump will be overwhelming.
Posted by mr creosote on 2007 10 09 at 06:15 PM • permalinkOf course soldiers know the risks of what they do. They are not as stupid as lefties try to portray them. Those morons you quoted may need a reminder that the same jihadi philosphy that killed nearly a hundred Aussies in Bali, is who the Australian Army (and Kiwi SAS) are fighting in Afhganistan.
Posted by brian_smaller on 2007 10 09 at 06:15 PM • permalink#3—Paco: Spot on. I often run into seemingly well educated, thoughtful folks who banter on about “bringing the troops home”, as if all the mess will just disappear if we did that.
I usually reply by asking them, “Don’t you think the terrorists and al Qaeda will just follow us home when we leave? Seeing as they were hitting us and killing Americans long before we went over there to fight back.”
Such a retort doesn’t effect any thoughtful response, beyond, it is America that is at fault for whatever is wrong in the world.
I simply refer to this syndrome as what it is: cognitive dissonance. An inability to deal with the facts and complexities, as they exist, that are at odds with one’s preferred view of the world, or of one’s life as it intersects with the world. (Not a textbook definition, but a real world definition.)
This is why the “fake, but accurate” meme is so popular, e.g. “too good to check”. It’s also why rebuttals arrive in the form of ad hominem attacks—because you are expressing an argument based on inconvenient facts that makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. Therefore, you are an evil person, and must be demonized as such.
The very same people that are supposedly famous for dealing with nuance and complexity reveal themselves through self-parody. They take “Bush the idiot” and turn him into the clever man who fooled everyone by rushing to war.
You can’t make this stuff up.
Hello folks, newbie here but long time lurker.
This thread has made my blood boil - the vitriolic spite of the loony left has never got any lower than these comments. As the mother of a soldier I am ashamed to be an Australian if these people are allowed free rein to peddle their vindictive hatred of the country which allows them all sorts of freedoms denied to the people that the armed services are trying to support. Scares the hell out of me that these folk are allowed to vote!
The Left annoy me no end with their vile attacks on the military, they don’t realise that the freedom they enjoy only exists because of the good people past and present in the military.
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” GEORGE ORWELL
These are same people of the “why do they hate us” brigade that say we should negotiate with terrorists. They view the military as a boondoggle for keeping more people “employed by the government” though they should not ever see actual combat. Indeed, the broader Left resent government spending on the military, seeing it as a waste of money and would much rather see it diverted to some of their pet areas of concern such as dung beetle programs and welfare.
Should their utopian socitey ever exist and the predictable bully comes to take away their freedom they will be first ones to cry for the very people they denounce.Posted by Hank Reardon on 2007 10 09 at 07:13 PM • permalinkQuoll, welcome. It really is unbelievable what comes out of their mouths…. Tell your son another Seppo and vet says thanks. It was always fun to run into some Diggers….unless of course, they were talking cricket….hey, I have to draw the line somewhere!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 10 09 at 07:34 PM • permalinkLuckily I was reading this thread whilst drinking a Hahn (at 9.30am after mowing my lawn for an hour) or I would’ve popped a valve (maybe I can see Kevin07 about that). I really can’t stand the left and this reinforces it! I just laugh whenever I get asked the question “Why can’t we all just get along?” My reply, “Ask Mohammed!”
These sheeple really belong elsewhere - maybe Iran or Syria.
Posted by ozconservative on 2007 10 09 at 07:49 PM • permalinkBut mind you, I didn’t shed a tear when Dickie Carlton dropped of his perch last year either.
Posted by ozconservative on 2007 10 09 at 07:51 PM • permalinkJust spit on them if you meet them, I know most here are too well brought up/respectable/dont want to waste good spit/ to do this but really they need to know the spite they are held in.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 10 09 at 07:55 PM • permalinkQuote: “they know the risks when they go overseas to recieve a grossly inflated salary to “defend” our country.”
JP, Melbourne.
Wow, these f*ckers are really on the fringe of sanity, if they think I get a ‘grossly inflated salary’. Can’t wait for the seventeen years of backpay. No idea at all, champ.
Try five years on 4 hours notice to deploy, one, (count ‘em, one) 4 week leave period when you aren’t on call,(required to stay within two hours of work) and risking death or injury just in training, especially when you have to tell your fiance you’re leaving again for six months.
Yes you know the dangers when you deploy, but one thing these people miss, probably because they don’t actually connect to other people, or seem to care about others, (except the poor Talibs), is that you go because your mates are going. Or young soldiers that you have trained. Because they need you, and you feel responsible for them. Or even because, simply, you want to feel that you are achieving something in the world.
So people like JP of Melbourne and I have one thing in common, we both want to achieve something out in the big bad world, the difference is, my worlds real. People can be crippled, or die. They can also achieve so very much, normally under conditions that people like JP would run a mile from.
Sometimes you wonder about the state of the mental health system in this country.
Now if you will excuse me, I must go and spend my overinflated wages on a new Benz, and a fur stole for Dirty Harriet (summer’s coming). Must keep up with the Joneses, what?Oh, and JP of Melbourne, you are a shining example of why soldiers loathe the Left. Keep it up.
And before I go, Malcolm of the ACT is right, I really would turn on him if ordered to. Because all of us automatons in the military would do that, because you don’t need to be clever to be a soldier. Low rat cunning is normally enough.
Seriously, are those comments a joke? Or has Wronwright finally managed to get the satellite mind control device to go to ‘Boiling Looney’?
Lefties, I’d p*ss on ‘em, if it wasn’t a waste of bodily fluids (kinda like their conception, in my opinion). :)
185600
Sometimes you wonder about the state of the mental health system in this country.
Yours isn’t the only one that creates wonder, my friend….we have tons of those same vile one cell brain people…
Speaking of….Paco, did your Senator James Webb, forget something back in VA….
Brain Found in Bag Outside Virginia Apartment Complex
Fox News#22 Boss Hog…. That Kipling poem is as appropriate today as when it was penned. My father used to read Kipling to me when I was a boy. I chose to memorize “Tommy” for an English assignment in 9th grade. After reciting it my teacher asked me to stay after class. I thought I was going to receive some constructive criticism. Instead , much to my surprise , she complemented me on the recitation. I learned years later that her father was a major in the marine corps .After the fall of the philippines he was forced along with his comrades to make the infamous “death march”. He was lucky or strong enough to survive the war and later taught me Algebra 2 in high school. With indifferent success,I might add.
If these people who consider signing up, had any respect for the beauty, fragility, and sanctity of human life, that risk would be enough to deter them from any army.
Sometimes respecting the beauty, fragility, and the sanctity of human life requires killing those who do not respect the beauty, fragility, and the sanctity of human life. See World War II.
Posted by Bill Ramey on 2007 10 09 at 09:28 PM • permalinkMalcolm of Queanbeyan senses a conspiracy: Hmmmmmm. Four years at war in two countries and not one casualty resulting from enemy action until Johny needs a poll boost weeks before an election. Johnies rabbit from the hat.
I have already heard from a reliable source that all the Jewish diggers had been removed from the patrol that day and given other duties…...
Here’s the piece at Ed Driscoll’s site I mentioned earlier. The expression “cold civil war” was apparently coined by William Gibson (not Victor David Hanson, as I had earlier Mis-recollected). A marvelous description.
I feel totally ripped off!
In thirteen years of Army service (3 ARES, 10 ARA) I only killed 4 Kangaroos (2 x LR110 roo-bar, 2 x MG3 Coax - which I suppose was my Gunners kill because I just pointed him in the general direction). Nothing else.
Who do I ask for compensation?
Despite what these shitheads have to say, I am still proud to have served a nation which allows them to be shitheads.
Quoll - welcome!
185600 - amen to what you say. I notice that the big ADF pay review (which honourless vermin like those Tim has found when he lifted a few rocks will howl about) is due next year.
I also note that a DFRT member has informed people in Russell that the last root-and-branch ADF pay review was in 1947.
1947.
60 years ago.
Wonder if the despicable curs braying about our ‘amazing’ pay and conditions would accept a pay system which did not do a complete review even once in a generation?
MarkL
Canberra#63 Mark L
Don’t even mention the DFRT stuff. I have decided to do what Malcolm from Canberra fears even more than a HoWard sanctioned pogrom. I think I might just strike, and you know, do those strikey things. The problem is if soldiers strike, our picket line still looks smart as a button, everyone in step, someone calling the time, all clean shaven, etc. And despite being highly trained tradesmen, not one of us is any good at paper mache effigies. Except for Jonesy (don’t ask, don’t tell).
You have to admit, OUR strikes would be much more interesting, if we did the ‘storm the workplace, take equipment in lieu of wages, assault the bosses’ line that most unions take.
Might even make the news, somewhere.
Na bugger it, none of us is smart enough for that, we’ll just continue to serve, and commit the sin of pride when we put on our uniforms.
That’ll scare ‘em.And don’t forget: one of the principal ingredients in the leftist stew is paranoia.
Hmmm. One of the anti-war protesters claims to have seen one of these insect-sized spy drones in Lafayette Park - practically across the street from the government agency where I work.
I wonder if she could possibly have been referring to the Psycho-war Anti-Communist Odonata?
Sterling bit of slueth work collecting all those comments, Tim. I look forward to you following it up with a list of comments from right-wing nutters who take David Pearce’s death as yet another reason to exterminate anyone with the audacity to be a Muslim—perhaps even turning them into compost.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 09 at 11:09 PM • permalink“Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.”
These maniacs aren’t doing much for our country except to prove time and again that they are on the enemy’s side.
Posted by The Best Infidel on 2007 10 09 at 11:27 PM • permalink#66 - Welcome friend!
Please accept my welcome gift - SUCK MY NUTS!Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 09 at 11:31 PM • permalink#67: Point being that cherry-picking comments from the idiotic extremes of either political wing is an exceptionally lazy way to argue, and proves nothing.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 09 at 11:33 PM • permalinkWell, hi there Peter M! Actually, I’ve been meaning to join this site for a while, but until recently it wasn’t accepting new memberships.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 09 at 11:35 PM • permalink#66 - BTW, compost is for fucking hippies. I find if you slice an islamofascist correctly they make excellent shingles or dog biscuits. Haven’t found an earthly use for dead shits like you - speed humps possibly.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 09 at 11:36 PM • permalinkNot really OTL: From ‘Dissecting Leftism’
“Everybody talks about the evil Neo-Cons, but nobody talks about the resurgent Neo-Commies. “Communist” has been expelled from the Politically Correct lexicon—which tells us a lot about the Commissars of the PC. They bear the most amazing resemblance to the old Commissars of (deleted) who killed 60-100 million people in the 20th century. (And Kim Jong Il, not to mention Red China, are still doing it….) Mikhail Gorbachev, who should know them when he sees them, recently warned about a “resurgence of Stalinism” in Russia and Eastern Europe. The history of Communist crimes was being erased, he said. Well, he was right. But resurgent Stalinism is not limited to those countries. It’s in the US and all over the world, as David Horowitz, another former radical, continues to document in great detail… So here’s a proposal. Let’s allow the Left to rant about Neo-Cons; but conservatives will be allowed to call the “new” Left exactly what it is: The Neo-Commies. Fair’s fair. Words mean things. These folks crawling all over Moveon.org and other Soros fronts are not “Marxists” or “Progressives,” “Radicals”—or especially “Liberals” in any real meaning of the word. They are Neo-Commies.”
From now on, I am using the term ‘Neocommies’ instead of ‘leftist’.
Because that is what the bastards are.
MarkL
Canberra66
perhaps even turning them into compost.
Ahhhhh, the legend of….(Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar, also known as El Campeador (“the Champion”), was a notable military leader and the national hero of Spain. His title of “the Cid” comes from a Spanish dialect of Arabic, sidi, meaning “sir” or “lord,” and was a title he acquired during his lifetime) El Cid, lives on….Thanks Ant.
“
perhapseven turning them into compost”There…MUCH BETTER…no?...:).
I see meeeja watch, still lurks
#85: You know, Ash, it’s the darndest thing: try as I might, I couldn’t find any outrageously violent or bigoted slurs from Right-wingers anywhere on the internet.
So I guess Tim’s correct: it’s only the Left that says shameful things like what he’s posted above.
I’m better off taking my misguided moralising elsewhere. Sorry for wasting everyone’s time.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 09 at 11:52 PM • permalinkAnt Rogenous, an interesting name, perhaps a mix of Ant and Androgynous. So a grubby little insect whose look or build make determining their gender difficult
Yes….seems about right
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2007 10 09 at 11:54 PM • permalink185600
Yup, that’d be an interesting strike.
Especially once the F-111’s got involved. Hey, I’m in the paramilitary wing of the APS these days, gotta get aircraft in there SOMEWHERE.
Ant Rogernous:
I like the handle. Welcome. Most here will appreciate civil discourse where one’s views are supported by verifiable fact. An open mind is inevitably more interesting than a closed one.We tend to get three types here. Conservative folks who look at facts (many of them ex-socialists like me who got mugged by reality), people of leftist inclination in the process of being mugged by reality, and common or garden trolls.
At least one of the latter (Miranda Divide) we keep as a species of pet. Generally, of course, they get the boot.
The second category are among the most interesting posters, especially for those of us who had the scales of socialist cant torn from our own eyes by the real world of actual events. The events which did that for me included (but were not limited to) being able to prove beyond doubt that the media was lying to me, an epiphany in a university lecture, and my horror at observing a sea dotted with over a hundred bloated corpses.
So welcome. I look forward to seeing what you say.
MarkL
Canberra#66- I noted a complete absence of anything but solemn respect and commiseration for the family from what appeared to be conservative types on that thread, Antsy, mingled a little with disgust at the attempted appropriation of a family and nations sorrow by vile marxist ideologues to push their creaking, leaking and misguided barrow.
But I’m sure you’ll be able to find all manner of inappropriate and disrespectful crowing about the demise of some progressive type, who was ironed out doing something courageous, useful and devoid of self interest.
We wait with much anticipation, Baygon Begone Boy.
What a bunch of thoughtless drones.
And 185600, you are right that you scare them. Hell, the whole world scares them. When a man is a thoughtless drone, he has little command of or control over his own life; he therefore spends the hours and days of his life trying to control the lives of others in a vain attempt to survive without personal thought or effort.
I think Dan of Qld would be for the war if we invaded Saudi Arabia instead.
Posted by Old school on 2007 10 10 at 12:06 AM • permalink#90: Clearly I’m not expecting Tim to do it, Ash. If he provided evidence that extremists of the Right are just as insane as extremists of the Left, it’d kind of make this blog redundant, wouldn’t it?
And why am I doing it myself? Well, I’ve already been labelled a “troll” for pointing out something fairly obvious about the comments Tim collected—that they’re about as representative of “the Left’s” position on the death of David Pearce as the Cronulla rioters’ actions are of the Right’s position on immigration. What good would it do?
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 12:07 AM • permalinkOnya Ant - evidence is for pussies.
Just as I was mourning the loss of Steve Rogan (from the boosty thread) along comes Ant! Life is good.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 10 10 at 12:10 AM • permalink#92: Thanks very much MarkL.
I have no intention of commenting here as a “troll”, despite what people like El Cid have already assumed (i.e. there is “not one thing moral” about me). What a delightful fellow—and how perceptive!
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 12:12 AM • permalinkOh well Ant, now that you’ve got a bit of spare time, you might like to go fishing with Neddy
Dont’ worry about the bait..
#97: Nothing of the sort, Penguin. But if Tim Blair wants to paint the Left—and those of us on that side of things—as inherently cruel, violent and stupid, I’d expect him to do a better job of it than what he did for this post. Surely that’s not too much to ask.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 12:15 AM • permalinkWe expect better Blair - surely not too much to ask.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 10 10 at 12:17 AM • permalinkKeep going Ant, we can win this argument together.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 10 10 at 12:18 AM • permalinkI’ve seen better paintings of the left as inherently cruel, violent and stupid at somewhere with very bad paintings!
(Come on Ant, I’m running out of ideas here.)
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 10 10 at 12:23 AM • permalinkI’ve seen these paintings of which you speak. 3rd cubicle from the left, Kings Cross Station public toilets. The brown stick figures. A tremendous reproduction, but a little hard on the old hooter.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 10 at 12:28 AM • permalink#104. Ant
Fair enough chum, if you are here for a reasoned debate then welcome to the show!
“the Left—and those of us on that side of things—as inherently cruel, violent and stupid”
I suspect a trap though….you’re making it too easy! The left has far more Gulags, executions, deaths on it’s hands and dismally failed social ideas than the right. Need Tim really list all the cruelty, violence and stupidity of the left for you to concede the point? If so, do you not make yourself an example of ignorance (or perhaps said stupidity)?
I’ll say one thing for Ant, he’s a lot better than that tosser Steven Rogan who was recently banned from the boosty thread - though there are a lot of striking similarities between their writing styles.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 10 10 at 12:33 AM • permalinksaltydog
El Cid, I suppose that this Ant isn’t our little ant; he writes too well for that. But the ant mentality is definitely there.
‘Tis true….maybe just maybe it’s Corndog. He seemed to write well, “But the ant mentality is definitely there”.
I’m with Margos…
(Come on Ant, I’m running out of ideas here.)
Bring it, Ant. Show us how and why everyone should be on your, “those of us on that side of things”.
#112: There’s no trap, Penguin, and I haven’t attempted to excuse the “Gulags, executions and deaths” that the failed social ideas of the Left brought about.
My problem with Tim’s post (“Leftist peacenik sampler”) is that it’s an attempt to portray tacitly the generally anti-war Left as hypocritical because, at its fringes, some lunatics have expressed mirth at the violent death of an Australian soldier.
Tim, and most of the commenters here, would rightly condemn a Left-wing blogger if, for example, he cherry-picked vile statements from sites like A Western Heart and used them as evidence that the Right is homophobic and/or condones violence against civilians in the Middle East.
I welcome the “dissection” of this comment. It’d sure beat the infantile sniping and ham-fisted witticisms I seem to have brought upon myself so far.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 12:46 AM • permalinkFor the record, I have no idea who this Steven Rogan is.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 12:47 AM • permalinkDAMN! And here I was already to be converted into a Balinese Bomber…or hit the big time with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Chavez, Osama…
Where are ya Ant?...I’m a convertible
#122: I agree, Nic. But that doesn’t make Tim’s post any more acceptable.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 12:56 AM • permalinkTake my word for it Ant, Steven Rogan is a loser. Speak no more of him…ptttoooey.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 10 10 at 12:57 AM • permalinkAnt, I think you are trying to tell us that the cherry-picked samples that Tim has given us are not typical of your side.
I must say, I am greatly relieved to hear this and I will sleep better tonight.
You have given us a renewed hope for sanity on the left.
Now, if you can just give us some examples of leftist comments that indicate a sense of reality, this would really firm things up for us.Minutes of numbnut collectivist artistic colony (Balmain branch)
Miranda: “The cake stall that we held at the Glebe markets last weekend, in conjunction with our brothers and sisters from the Socialist Collective Action Tribunal (SCAT) raised $32.50. $30 of that was a grant from Leichhardt Council. How are we going to spend this money?”
Rodney: “We should give it to Sea Shepherd. They are fighting Japanese whalers. They need money so that they can continue the fight. It’s vital that we fight these nasty Japanese sea bandits with all our resources. We should fight and fight until there is no breathe left in our bodies. We should stop at nothing to win this fight. It’s war on the high seas. When this fight is over, men (and womyn) will say, ‘never before in the flight of human history will so many whales owe it to so few anti-whaling protestors. This is our finest hour’”
Samantha: “We should give it to the traditional owners of Redfern, who are fighting a land grab by the evil HoWARd government. I heard that the army was sent in last week to snatch new born babies from the arms of crying mothers. We need to fight this oppression! We shall fight them in the needle exchange centres. We shall fight them in the collectivised housing centres. We shall fight them amongst the burnt out cars littering the streets and we shall never surrender.”
Tabitha: “The unions should get this money to fight for our rights at work. We need to be on the picket lines every day, fighting every action of this illegal and immoral government. I will never stop fighting for workers rights!”
Skyfinch: “Out local gay and lesbian activists need this money to fight for their rights to bear and raise children. This fight has been going on for years. We’re in it for the long haul on this one - I say we give it to them. They’re also up against an oppresive and reactive religious establishment. We need to fight organised religion in this country with everything we have. We need to put more effort into conscripting school children into this battle.”
Door opens and Bruce walks in. Bruce is the brother of Skyfinch
Bruce: “Ah, g’day Skyfinch. Just wanted to say goodbye before I go.”
Samantha: “Where are you off to, Bruce? An overseas World Music Festival perhaps? It’s very hard to hold them these days - the organisers have to fight and fight and fight to get the authorities to approve them.”
Bruce: “Nah. I just got orders for me and my mortar team to deploy to Afghanistan. We’re off tomorrow.”
Rodney: “Mortar team? You mean you are a bricklayer? You build things with bricks and mortars? Are you going to be building any meditation and yoga centres in Afghanistan? I’ve been fighting to get one built here, but the local council won’t approve my yurt design. I can see that I’ll be fighting them for years.”
Skyfinch: “Um, look Bruce, not now hey? I’ll come out to the base in the morning and see you off there. Ok?” Makes imploring “shoot through now” eyes at Bruce.
Rodney: “Base? What kind of base are you talking about?”
Bruce: “The base that my infantry regiment is based at. That kind of base. The only other base I know about is the baseplate on my mortar.”
Rodney: “You mean to say that you’re off to FIGHT! That’s terrible!”
Posted by mr creosote on 2007 10 10 at 01:04 AM • permalinkAnt—We wouldn’t accept it as a cross-section if it didn’t tally up with what we hear in everyday life, at work, at school, in the street. When our politicians stand up in front of cameras and tell the nation our soldiers only enlist because they are too stupid and unemployable to do anything else, when ‘peacelovers’ crash young girls’ YouTube tributes to their brothers to tell her they hope he dies in Iraq, when ‘peacelovers’ scream that in the faces of mothers of soldiers, after enough of that, guess what? We take your word for it: that’s your voice.
And you want to know the differnce between what you’re reading here and what you’re reading there? We’re protesting the people who revile the soldiers, sailors and aviators, men and women, who stand between them and bombed hotels, butchered schoolteachers and students and toppled skyscrapers. If you don’t get that you’re either not very observant or not very honest. Either way I’m doubtful you’re worth any more attention.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 10 10 at 01:10 AM • permalinkIs it me, or is this thread being subjected to somebody who just ant ready to treat the topic seriously?
BTW Tim, you’ve been tagged.
Posted by mythusmage on 2007 10 10 at 01:19 AM • permalink#131 Bravo richard. I heard similar sentiments in the office yesterday to those on the news.com.au website. They were stated in a less venomous tone but the intent was the same. I hear that crap all the time as I work in moonbat central (aka Canberra). I was in the RAAF for 16 years and I talk to my old ADF colleagues to get some intelligent conversation and try to ignore the garbage I hear at work.
#131: Richard, it’s not a cross-section, although suggesting so seems to have been Tim’s intention. As for “my voice”, you can judge me by what I’ve posted here today. To attribute anything else to me, because of the actions and words of lunatics (who I revile too) is grossly offensive and patently unfair.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 01:23 AM • permalink#129 Mr Creosote. Lovely work, I could almost smell the Tofu.
#118 Ant.
Well be not excusing the gulags etc, I can only assume you are therefore conceding that the ideas of the Left have led to more cruelty, violence and stupidity. I will not gloat - it does not sit well with my unsurpassed humility.
Yet you imply your gripe is that Tim is unfairly attempting to tar you all as hypocritical maggots by the surreptitious selection of a few comments. Indeed sir, he is not. If you’ll care to read the Post’s title it openly includes the word sampler.
Besides, I tend to trust generalisations when they applied to groups (but not individuals). The left sees generalisations as an outrage and has made them a crime of political incorrectness. Yet, I stubbornly refuse to budge. Generalisations applied to a group are, more often than not, a sign of judgement and discrimination. There! I said the D word and dared to use it in it’s positive context.
Dear Ant, when you see a group of drunk football hooligans coming towards you down the street, so you not attempt to cross to the other side?
#137- I haven’t bothered to count, but I’d reckon half at least of the comments on that thread appeared to be penned by those of the peace, love and mungbean set, along with a smattering of old-style unionist troglydites, all of the broad socio-political grouping referred to as “the left”.
Of these, well over 90% expressed little if any sympathy for the family of the deceased, being more concerned with making a political point with obscene haste. Some (I’d say about 50%+) were downright vile slander on the victim of terrorist bastardry and his cobbers- thewre was no real need to cherry pick, the ones selected were only marginallymore repulsive, cowardly, insulting, denigrating and idiotic than the rest.
Fortunately there’s not that many of you anyway, seeing as the best the Greens can ever poll nationally is 5% of those who can be arsed to vote, say around 500,000 all up- of these probably 10% would see themselves (or be seen) as actual hardline marxists, the rest being tweedy wankers and becardiganed menopausal busybodies who flipped out when they dried up., gave up bingo and read Chomsky- so 50,000 feral deadshits who believe they have not only the ideas but the right to save the world.
More people watch wogball of a weekend.
Losers, get over yourselves- while your vitriol is upsetting to people who are in a fragile state due to loss, the rest of us see you for what you are- pathetic, ineffectual, talent-bereft nobodies, desperate to be noticed and your brilliance aknowledged; ain’t going to happen in this lifetime, sport.
Ant Rogenous
I count 35 out of the first 200 (I couldn’t be bothered going though the whole lot) as negative towards the serviceman, or busy squealing about HoWARd being eeeevil.
Thats better than 15% on a forum set up more or less to offer condolences to the trooper.
That strikes me as a startlingly high proportion of lefty “haters” right there.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 10 10 at 01:43 AM • permalink#138:
Dear Ant, when you see a group of drunk football hooligans coming towards you down the street, so you not attempt to cross to the other side?
Of course, Penguin. Because they’re drunk and they’re acting like hooligans.
Using your poorly conceived analogy, what Tim’s post is suggesting is that if you see any group of people dressed in football guernseys and scarves coming towards you, you should cross the street regardless of how well behaved they are because a minority of people who go to the football binge drink and then indulge in hooliganism.
Want proof: LOOK AT THESE CHERRY-PICKED EXAMPLES I’VE FOUND IN NEWSPAPERS! There’s at least 10 of them, despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of people go to the football each week.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 01:43 AM • permalink#140: What’s unacceptable is trying to pass off a skewed sample as endemic of an entire political movement.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 01:45 AM • permalink#118, Ant, or is it Can’t?
Dissection of what comment?
We asked you to provide proof of Vile Right Wingers.You said, “it’s not up to me”, boo hoo.
Instead, you give us a tepid bleat about Tim’s post and then go on to say we wouldn’t like it if cry babies like yourself cherry-picked nasty comments from the “other” side.Where are the comments? Come on, you must have had a few in mind. You’ve read some somewhere, haven’t you?
Give us some links to these dreadful comments on other blogs so that we may read for ourselves the vile opinions of some insane Right Wingers that we are harbouring.
I’m Waiting!!! (((taps foot impatiently)))
#137, Ant
So your complaint isn’t that Tim brought these outrageous statements to our notice, but that he didn’t give equal time to right-wing nutters?
I don’t care for right-wing nutters myself, but I’m not sure you and I would agree on what constitutes a right-wing nutter. I certainly don’t think it is necessary to turn all Muslims into compost, just those who are trying to kill me and mine, and those who think they are competent to tell me how I must think and act and otherwise live my own life.
However. The point of this particular post isn’t what segments of Islam are trying to do or how anyone thinks about it. It is about the extraordinary lack of taste, class and sheer human feeling shown by some at the news of the death of one of their countrymen. What the hell do Muslims, or how people feel about them, have to do with the topic at hand? Why do you seek to impose the subject in the first place?
By-the-bye, we have discussed that particular topic more than once and over many posts. Surprise! People have different attitudes and opinions. Look before you leap to conclusions.
141. El Cid
I used to think that too until a friendly poster pointed out he was a democrat.
From the Wiki.
“Democratic Party
Phelps has run in various Kansas Democratic Party primaries five times, but has never won. These included races for governor in 1990, 1994, and 1998, receiving about 15% of the vote in 1998.[34] In the 1992 Democratic Party primary for U.S. Senate, Phelps received 31% of the vote [35] Phelps ran for mayor of Topeka in 1993 [36] and 1997. [37]”No doubting hes a cancer on the arse of a jackal though.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 10 10 at 01:50 AM • permalinkArguing with enemy sympathizers and/or those who’ve given themselves over to adherence of the propaganda of the enemy and those who support the enemy is as useless an endeavor as is possible for a human to engage.
There is one universally accepted remedy for those who have made the choice to become betrayers, defeatists, and agitprops during a time of war.
Every society and every culture ever recorded in human history has accepted this.
Treason and defeatism or adherence to any part of an enemy is not, nor has it ever been, an issue of “just a difference of opinion”. Not ever.
More of Fred...who/whom also should be made into compost (remember that Ant?)
Oh Ant…links...not words please.
144 and this from the same wiki, Blairs law strikes again!!!
“Support for Al Gore
Phelps supported Al Gore in the 1988 Democratic Party primary election.[38] In his 1984 Senate race, Gore opposed a “gay bill of rights” and stated that homosexuality was not something that “society should affirm”.[39] Phelps has stated that he supported Gore because of these earlier comments.[40] According to Phelps, members of the Westboro Baptist Church helped run Gore’s 1988 campaign in Kansas. Phelps’ son, Fred Phelps Jr., hosted a Gore fundraiser, which Al and Tipper Gore attended, at his home in Topeka.[10][40] Fred Phelps, Jr. served as a Gore delegate to the 1988 Democratic National Convention.[40][41] Gore spokesman Dag Vega declined to comment; “We are not dignifying those stories with a response.”[42]”Not to fussy with his supporters is he?
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 10 10 at 01:52 AM • permalinkThis slow, painful, ham fisted death is worthy of a B-grade schlock horror. Hurry up and die already, you oxyegen thieving, holier than thou, pissant.
Civil discussion should be reserved for those that are worthy. This arsehat and his like aren’t fit to bathe in my ball sweat.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 10 at 02:01 AM • permalink#148: A link to what, Kae? If you’re refering to that last part of my post, it was an (admittedly clumsy) attempt to illustrate how someone using Tim’s method of argument in his “Leftist peacenik sampler” post might try to justify wariness of football fans because of the stupid actions of a minority, using a similarly flawed method.
I’ll work harder at making these things clearer in future.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 02:03 AM • permalink#155 There is NO reason to turn condolence into political attack, and the ill-informed comments about service personnel in Afghanistan do no-one any credit.
I wonder though if it’s any better for Brendan Nelson to use David Pearce’s death for propagandising against Iran?
Posted by Hero Schema on 2007 10 10 at 02:06 AM • permalinkWell Ant, I am glad that you agree with me that generalisations are useful. You have judged all drunk football fans to be violent hooligans based on the actions of a tiny minority. You are tending to reveal yourself as a conservative. see the problem?
You would see my analogy as a poor one because it seems clumsy and simplistic but allow me to elaborate. When it comes to support for the troops things are very simple for me. Both the right and the left believe they support the troops.
They actually just have different definitions regarding what
support is. I have been on both sides of politics and I reject what the left consider to be support.I grew up in the moonbattiest of families you could imagine. I was constantly bombarded with the ideas of the left. This wasn’t a hobby of my family and their friends, it was their lives.
I am under no illusion as to what the majority of lefties think of military service and military people. I have seen the public faces of these leftists and then heard the sharp contrast of their private comments.
I am utterly comfortable and confident that the right has a far better attitude to military service than the left.
Therefore, Tim’s sampler came as no surprise to me. I do not even get angry when I read that rubbish. I’ve listened to a lifetime of it. The only surprise for me as I grew up was how widespread disrespect for the military is in the left.
As I stated, you, like many on the left, will simply disagree with this because you honestly believe that the mainstream of the left supports the military. Well I call bullshit mate - your idea of support is hollow and ineffective. And if you press your fellow travellers their real attitudes towards the military may even shock you. Give it a try.
What part of “sampler” don’t you understand?
Any thicker and you’d be the fat lining Phat Phil’s ateries. Now do something useful and FOAD.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 10 at 02:13 AM • permalinkFrom my own experience and circle of acquiantances, most who I’d describe as “lefties” harbour at least some glee over the death of a digger as they see it as harmful to HoWARd; like their judgement on most things, they’re completely wrong, and living in 1968.
The majority odf sane, sensible and aware people see an attack on one of ours as an attack on all of us, particularly when the victim is involved in a peacekeeping/reconstruction role, which the majority endorses.
Only someone with the acumen of a mosquito coil, the reason of a venus fly trap and the intellect of roadbase would see it as anything else, and they are fully deserving of our ridicule and revulsion.
#160:
You have judged all drunk football fans to be violent hooligans based on the actions of a tiny minority.
Oh dear, Penguin: you appear to be thinking yourself into an untidy little knot. Here’s what you said:
When you see a group of drunk football hooligans coming towards you down the street, so you not attempt to cross to the other side?
Excuse me for thinking a “hooligan” would be acting in a manner befitting that name.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 02:15 AM • permalink#158 - G’day Pog! It’s a right hoot isn’t it!
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 10 at 02:16 AM • permalink#156:
Civil discussion should be reserved for those that are worthy.
I agree, Infidel Tiger. But then I wasn’t talking to you, you bilious, ignorant gobshite.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 02:17 AM • permalinkWhat’s unacceptable is trying to pass off a skewed sample as endemic of an entire political movement.
The irony is that Tim chose only to use a News Ltd forum. Check out the one at Fairfax, a publication regarded fondly by your bretheren. If the comments there (and they are far worse) are not indicitive, then what is?
#166 Ant.
You are excused. I was originally thinking of using a group of skinheads, but no matter what term is used, you form a picture in your mind. See my point? You generalise based upon your limited observance of a larger group. You are guilty of taking a small sample of observed behaviour or knowledge and making a judgement. Sound familiar?
#169: Dodge and weave, Nic. I would have criticised the cherry-picking regardless of which forum was used as a source.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 02:20 AM • permalink#168 - I retract my previous statement. You are fit to bathe in my ball sweat!
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 10 at 02:21 AM • permalink#172: Judging by your gutless sniping, it’d be a fairly scant bath.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 02:24 AM • permalink146 Ant
#140: What’s unacceptable is trying to pass off a skewed sample as endemic of an entire political movement.
Pardon the play on words…but YOU should right, what is wrong “of an entire political movement”.
Preach to your own….as you stated “those of us on that side of things”.
THEY made the bed, you lay in!
#174 - Scant it may be, but a fine vintage all the same. Would you like a rubber ducky to play with or should I leave you to amuse yourself?
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 10 at 02:33 AM • permalink#174
Considering your dead skin and dried sweat collection, a horse herd worth of sweat would be just a start.
Posted by mythusmage on 2007 10 10 at 02:33 AM • permalinkDavid Pearce’s brother is now saying that Trooper Pearce joined the army for financial security, and knew the risks. He also says David believed in the value of his job.
What does this mean?
Posted by Hero Schema on 2007 10 10 at 02:34 AM • permalink#175: I see. So it’s an echo chamber you’re after, huh? Very well, I’ll leave you to it then.
EVERYONE ELSE: Thanks to the few of you who engaged in debate in good faith today. I appreciate it. I expected to wade in to a next of particularly venomous, disingenuous vipers, but it turned out a few of you made a genuine effort.
Actually, I could use Tim’s method of passing off the minority’s behaviour as that of the majority and say this site is populated by generous, thoughtful, intelligent people…
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 02:37 AM • permalink#183: Oh man, I can’t leave without commenting in this beauty.
A leader you say! Well. Just when I thought the Tim Blair veneration on this site couldn’t get any more creepily cultish…
After a series of inane comments, El Cid, you’ve finally made my day.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 02:49 AM • permalink#174 Ant
Take it as a compliment, apparently it can cure arthritis, and any sundry number of other complaints. Hey Infidel. :)Mr Ant, one question for you. Do you support our troops? Not the ‘oh yes, I’ll support Tommy Atkins as long as the band plays’ (thanks Richard) sort of support. But truly worry that young men and women with a similar upbringing to yours, similar values, are risking their lives as part of the extension of the political will of your government? I don’t mind that you don’t agree with my political views, and won’t insult you for yours. But these ‘radical’ views expressed on behalf of your cause are as callous and disrespectful to a man’s memory as pissing on his grave. As someone who has, and continues to serve in our current conflicts, proudly, I would like you to answer my question. You guys always seem happy to ask ‘em, now my turn.
To put it another way, would you see the family of a deceased soldier the same as a family of Afghan refugees, or don’t our families count for you?Oh, and hello everyone, got back into the general population again yesterday. :)
Ash, yes please, more photos of my future legal defence would be lovely. Dirty Harriet got a bit funny after the first one you sent, and started muttering about ‘I’ll be old and barren before we do that’.
God knows what she’s on about.#185: I’ll answer this one quickly, 185600, but I really do have to go.
I support the troops insofar as they are Australian citizens (of perhaps the most honourable kind) and I am concerned for their wellbeing as such. It’s an unspeakable tragedy when an Australian serviceman or woman is killed in the line of duty; a duty to which they signed up for the good of their country.
... or don’t our families count for you?
That was unnecessary.
Posted by Ant Rogenous on 2007 10 10 at 02:59 AM • permalink#186 Ash_
Um, dibs on not helping with the bottling, please. :)I would just like to know where Mr Ant stands is all. People who want to shape the affairs of the world should get involved in the world, whatever their political stripe. If that means paper mache effigies, and ‘speaking truth to power’ so be it. If it means sitting on the side of a mountain freezing your you-know-whats off halfway around the world, looking up at the stars and promising you’ll be a good person for the rest of your life if you only see your fiance again, so be it.
What’s unacceptable is trying to pass off a skewed sample as endemic of an entire political movement.
Ant- Please point us toward well-reasoned, rational and sourced debate from your side. Or use this forum as an opportunity to post your own. Or, at least, name one left forum that doesn’t immediately block, ban and delete opposing views. Just one?
(Noting that opposition is not what gets you banned here. Name calling and shouting while refusing to debate or acknowledge debate does.)
Posted by nofixedabode on 2007 10 10 at 03:10 AM • permalink#193 I suppose we can let you off bottling duty 185600, but only because you have other jobs to do for the good of mankind.
Have you gotten the email yet?
And I live on top of a hill, that’s cold enough for me, I don’t particularly want to be on a mountain on the other side of the world. Is it ok if I just support you guys from my warm house down here, by training the future legal counsel?
#192 Ant
The reason I asked if our families counted, wasn’t an attempted snarky aside, but to try to put it in perspective. To our families (who do use the internet, we aren’t Amish yet), they see this sort of vitriol every time they look at comments, on mainstream sites, etc.
Imagine your fiance or partner reading people gleefully trying to wrap their political points around your death. Not a very nice situation. But thank you for your answer, because, despite what some on the left might think, some of us do join up to do the right thing. Some of us even end up doing it too.Like all leftists, Ant likes to pretend that any discussion on a topic only started with their input and the years of preceding experience never occurred.
This is a requirement for those who’s ideological pedigree links directly to the greatest mass murder cult in modern human history.
There is nothing honest, honorable or integrity oriented to the left. It is all twitch driven delusion, deceit and betrayal and at its very core, absolutely misanthropic.
#77 have you thought of having stickers made with that feisty slogan?
Posted by carpefraise on 2007 10 10 at 03:32 AM • permalink#176:
Would you like a rubber ducky to play with or should I leave you to amuse yourself?
I’m gonna bet that Ant regularly amuses himself. Be careful, Ant: you’ll go blind.
Posted by Villeurbanne on 2007 10 10 at 03:34 AM • permalinkAnt, welcome.
I really hate echo-chambers.
You’ve raised some good points, some not-so-good. But please provide some evidence.
Are you seriously saying that the loathsome comments that Tim “cherry picked” do not represent at least a sizeable minority, if not the majority, of vocal Leftists?
Note I say “vocal”. Most Leftists are not that bad in my experience. The trouble is (says she picking figures out of her… google) is that while Fanatic Rightists may be as much as 5% of the total, Fanatic Moonbats make up a much higher percentage of the Left. As a signatory of the Euston Manifesto, I’ve been exposed to this for some time.
I see too many on the Right who condemn all Lefties, not just most, as Stupid. But the Mainstream view on the Left is that all Righties are EVIL EVIL EVIL, and there is a competition amongst them to be “More Left Than Thou” in their expressed hatred.
Example:
Islamofascist decapitates Jew:Wingnut: “Kill all Muslims and Nuke Mecca!
Moonbat: “It’s all BusHitler and HoWARd’s fault”Paedophile caught:
Wingnut: “Torture all Homos and Perverts and Burn them at the Stake!”
Moonbat: “It’s all BusHitler and HoWARd’s fault”Storm damages city:
Wingnut: “It’s God’s wrath on the Ungodly!”
Moonbat: “It’s all BusHitler and HoWARd’s fault”And so on and so on. If you can stand it, go visit Free Republic some time for what has become a total embarrassment to those on the Right. They have been seriously discussing whether you can be a Conservative if you’re also a Catholic, or Jew, or Mormon, or anything but a Fundamentalist Christian Taliban who believes the Earth was created less than 5000 years ago.
Then go visit DU Underground. Or the Daily Kos. Or the Huffington Post. Or Green Left Weekly. Or in fact *any* Leftist site. What is an embarrassing anomaly on the Right is well into the mainstream of the Left.
Perhaps it would be best if we could have a competition: the Righties like me pointing out the idiocies on our side, while Leftists point out the things that “sometimes make them embarrassed to be Lefties”.
Here, I’ll go first:
TtH - Yes. The rot started with giving Jews and Catholics civil rights, then Blacks, then Women. Where will it end?
Sometimes, not often, but sometimes, I’m actually ashamed to be on the political Right. It’s when statements such as TtH’s are made. Statements that emanate from a part of the Right, but are so very Wrong.
Now one of yours, where you’re on the record as criticising some Moonbattery. Or don’t you do that, out of “solidarity”?
#201 Then I’ll do my duty right here 185600. We certainly can’t have good men doing time. Not when it could be prevented by lots of study and encouragement.
Say, do you know the best way to turn a copy of the Crimes Act into a wallpaper for a kid’s bedroom? Study purposes only, of course. I’ll print it on pink paper so her room still looks pretty.
#118 “at its fringes”, huh?
AntR, i have attended a fair few community events, demonstrations, lectures and such, all attended and organised by various socilaist left-wing groups. i have also read of many a demo, event etc, organised by them.
ALL of them are generally well-organised paeans to the compassionate nature of humankind - unless you’re American or Israeli, in which case your flags get burned, you are the target of violence and (more painful) smug moralising and you are assessed as deserving of death and destruction.More proof? This shit is available on various websites and so-called “community” radio stations in Australia. Have a listen sometime and then you’ll understand why I summarise ALL of it as the Hour of Bile.
Posted by carpefraise on 2007 10 10 at 03:47 AM • permalinkOT (sort of) but today is the anniversary of The Battle of Tours where the Moors were given a hiding near Poitiers. William Watson wrote of it’s significance:
The rapid Muslim conquest of Palestine, Syria, Egypt and the North African coast all the way to Morocco in the seventh century resulted in the permanent imposition by force of Islamic culture onto a previously Christian and largely non-Arab base…Had Charles Martel suffered at Tours-Poitiers the fate of King Roderick at the Rio Barbate, it is doubtful that a “do-nothing” sovereign of the Merovingian realm could have later succeeded where his talented major domus had failed. Indeed…one can even say with a degree of certainty that the subsequent history of the West would have proceeded along vastly different currents had ‘Abd ar-Rahman been victorious at Tours-Poitiers in 732.
Posted by Villeurbanne on 2007 10 10 at 03:48 AM • permalink#203 Zoe
Thank you for putting the point across better than I could. There are people on both sides of these arguments that you wouldn’t invite to dinner, but the fact is, most of the screaming and keening you hear is from the Left. I will admit that I have strong views, and am not the most articulate of men, but if I ever blame the weather on a politician, brand me insane and lock me up.
However that voodoo hounoun from Bondi, changing the weather so that he can have a decent surf, him I can blame. :)
That’s not nutty, is it?#186, Ash you could market it!
I reckon calling it Nutsack Dew would get the profits in!
Posted by carpefraise on 2007 10 10 at 03:59 AM • permalink#210,
An attempted suicide? At least that is what is speculated in the article. Slow suicide by kidney failure doesn’t sound like a pleasant way to go, though.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 10 10 at 04:00 AM • permalinkBy the way, Zoe’s:
What is an embarrassing anomaly on the Right is well into the mainstream of the Left.
...is right on the money. The Internet Left has at least a 5-year history of that sort of bile directed at their political “enemies”, and Tim has been documenting it the whole time.
“Cherry-picked” my ass.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 10 10 at 04:15 AM • permalink... passing off the minority’s behaviour as that of the majority and say this site is populated by generous, thoughtful, intelligent people…
Sink me, if we ain’t got a budding Oscar Wilde in our midst.
I wonder if our newest bestest buddy is just a smidge embarrassed by the further tarnishing of those of us on that side of things and yet has no forum within that brand to express his dismay.#209 Zoe
Thank you.Um, on Anti-freeze boy, I have heard of a lot of Russian conscripts draining their armoured vehicles of anything resembling alcohol, including hydraulic fluid, to drink during their little trip to Afghanistan in the eighty’s.
Perhaps he just needed a little pick me up?
Well, at least a pick me up and take me to the emergency ward?Hey all y’all.
Here’s something from one of your own:
Dr. Dave Kilcullen.
This is an hour long interview with Charlie Rose and Dr. Kilcullen goes into good depth on the basics of counter insurgency and the current campaigns in some specific detail.For those of you who didn’t know or have forgotten, Dr. Kilcullen is an Aussie military officer and has been serving as a senior adviser to Gen. Petraeus.
too late for dead Che day, but I got a giggle out of this T shirt.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 10 10 at 05:06 AM • permalinkWell, I tried to be civil. I asked ant civil questions. I not only didn’t get any answers, civil or otherwise, I was completely ignored. Ill-mannered and uncivil.
I guess I ought to have threatened ball sweat, but being female, that threat is right out. I’m too much of a coward to mention boob sweat. I’d hate to think he might take me up on it. EEK!
I’ll just go out on a limb here and say that someone blaming Tim of cherry-picking by cherry-picking this thread to complain about right-wing nutters, and then baiting posters, is a tad disingenuous and involves more than a little equivocation.
I haven’t the time to read all of the comments but I’d have to say that I’m glad these green hippy “peaceniks” have stopped abusing the word “liberal” and left liberals like me alone.
I’d like to add that whoever said that these people are not simply “anti-war but on the other side” is dangerously close to the truth. Fortunately these people are in a tiny minority.
What fascinates me is the cultural amnesia that is happening not just in regard to the Taliban regime and 9/11 but the clear witness of the 20th Century in regard to totalitarian regimes, command economies and civil liberties under fascist and communist regimes (or empires).
I do not regard the Iraq War was necessary and has made the real war on Islamic terrorism a lot harder by dividing allies who should be united. (others may disagree, but there it is)
But on the question of Afghanistan, it really is the key front of democratic freedom, like it or not. Either we prevail against the Taliban or we face a terrorist threat across the planet.
Oh, and I silently remember David Pearce and his putting himself in harm’s way for all of us who treasure freedom. We need more people like him.
#189 Ash, I feel your pain. Our brand new 6 week old boy has a tummy upset. Mrs Sharpe is getting no sleep. This has a flow on effect. I’m hiding in the study at the moment.
Posted by Richard Sharpe on 2007 10 10 at 06:23 AM • permalinkThank you Grimmy. I need a good barrier for the study door. Maybe I could borrow the bar that slots into the mead cellar door?
Posted by Richard Sharpe on 2007 10 10 at 06:35 AM • permalink#231 Richard, I’m sorry your baby’s sick. I haven’t had much of that with mine yet, but I’m sure it’s not too far off. Mine just has an evil streak. She’ll happily sleep or play quietly until around 10:30 pm, then she’ll wake up every few hours, or minutes, for the rest of the night and go to sleep properly somewhere between 9 and 11 the following morning. Right when I’m unable to sleep, because the sun shines straight into my bedroom at during the day.
Or, she’ll play all afternoon and sleep all night, and wake me between 5 and 6 the next morning. Those days I like. Unfortunately, she never has two of them in a row.
Pogria,
I think Ant was correct that pointing out extreme views like the ones collected by TimB in the OP as symptomatic of all “lefties” as an extremely lazy form of argumentation is correct.
Weblogging _is_ lazy. Its not scholarship or journalism at all. In most cases its not that far removed from scrawling on the toilet walls.
On the other hand, just because its easy to condemn such comments as in the OP as a disgrace to humanity doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done.
We _are_ seeing a resurgence of neo-Marxist ideas back into the cultural marketplace only 20 years after they were consigned to the garbage pile of history. Under the guise of environmental concern and social justice and vacuous slogans like “Make Poverty History” lurks a resurgent Marxist program to limit what it sees as the excesses of capitalism.
Comment 179 by Bluey (now there’s a good old Aussie name) on the news.com.au site:
It is the Australian soldier, not the Trade Union, that gives us the Right to Demonstrate. It is the Australian soldier, not the Reporter, that gives us Freedom of the Press. It is the Australian soldier, not the Lawyer, that gives us the Right to a Fair Trial. It is the Australian soldier, not the Poet, that gives us Freedom of Speech. It is the Australian soldier who salutes the flag, serves under the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives the protester the right to burn the flag.
Perhaps Paco can come up with a way to stamp this on the foreheads of all the scumbags whose comments are beneath contempt.
Were did all the morons go? This was a very entertaining read. There is absolutely no way that any of those comments can be justified. The sad part is that contrary to the ant’s protestations, they are exemplary of mainstream left rationality. Some of my family lives in Canberra. One uncle is a bit of a moonbat, his “life partner” is an utter fruitcake. They (and in particular she) are firm adherents to all of the more rabid ideologies demonstrated in the news.com thread. There seem to be a lot of them in Canberra; it might be the sterile and soul sapping nature of the place that does it. I’m firmly of the opinion that Canberra spoils what would otherwise be a perfectly good sheep station, but I digress. The thing that upsets me most is the foul and rancid manner that a thread dedicated to a fallen Australian was so quickly and viciously turned into a demonstration of callous disregard for the family of TPR Pearce and all of the families off Australians serving overseas.
Posted by Richard Sharpe on 2007 10 10 at 06:55 AM • permalinkJust showed Tim’s quotes to my husband, who served in Vietnam 66-67 and lost several good mates there. He and his mates had the whole gamut of leftist hate back then: wharfies holding up essential supplies here in Australia, pilfering mail and family gift parcels, notes from unionists wishing them death, being spat on and assaulted on return to Sydney etc.
His good friend Richie, who died metres away from him in 1967, has never had a proper hometown observance because it’s a Labor stronghold and the family was discouraged from glorifying Vietnam by the mining union minions who ran the town at that time. Last year, after the parents had died, his sisters contacted us and a few others and we finally had a memorial ceremony, 40 years too late.
When I showed the spouse these comments he just shook his head and said “Nothing’s changed, has it?”
The left is doing Vietnam all over again.
Our sincere condolences to David Pearce’s family and friends, and our thanks for his valour.
#235 Ash_
At least you don’t have to put up with what I used to do to my dad as a newborn, apparently I used to sleep between him and mum, under his arm. Every time I woke I used to pull on his underarm hair, he says so hard he thought his arm was going to come off. No crying, just trying to rip his armpit off. Reckon that’s why I’m a fan of deodorant now. :)
Dad still reckons he has less hair on his left armpit than his right for that reason.#238 Sandi M
I don’t know Bluey, but god bless him, he has it right. My great granddad and his brothers, my granddad and his, my uncles, believed and lived by such sentiment.
As today’s generation, I try.
But some people will never understand. Feeling that you are doing something for a greater good is pretty alien to some people.#238 SandiM, I’ve always quite liked this one…
‘The oath to serve your country, as a soldier did not include a contract for the normal luxuries and comforts enjoyed within our society. On the contrary it implied hardship, loyalty and devotion to duty regardless of rank’
George Mansford
Rifleman, Korea, 1952
Brigade Commander, 1987Posted by Richard Sharpe on 2007 10 10 at 07:06 AM • permalinkAsh, thank you. 185600, Ive been reading for while but have only just been able to register. I read somewhere earlier that you’re in Townsville. Might I enquire as to what colour band you wear on your hat?
Posted by Richard Sharpe on 2007 10 10 at 07:13 AM • permalink#243 Richard
I have seen that quote before, at a certain military establishment, I remember seeing a sign sitting out in the middle of a jungle clearing, being wet, tired and angry, and then comprehending, and just feeling humble.
Still wet, tired and angry, but understanding why.#244 Ash_
You probably don’t have the armpit hair for it. She’s just sizing you up for the cagefight when she’s fourteen and wants to date the boy you warned her about. :)Thank you Grimmy. Although I’d like to think so, I’m not this bloke.
Posted by Richard Sharpe on 2007 10 10 at 07:21 AM • permalink
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What’s really weird is that they evidently think everyone else secretly thinks as they do, or ought to. Too bad they can’t be sent to live in one of those places for a few years.