<< LOON HOAXER EXPOSED ~ MAIN ~ UNREMARKABLE IMAGE >>
NOBODY PUSHES THE SMH AROUND
America doesn’t want you to see these photographs, but that won’t stop the Sydney Morning Herald! They’ll never surrender to censorship demands from foreign regimes. This is a free land, and the SMH aims to keep it so; if that means upsetting a few Americans by publishing images they’d prefer not be published, well, mister, that’s exactly what the SMH will do.
Sure, they could have taken the easy way out and simply described the images, but that isn’t the SMH way. Nor will the television network SBS buckle before any bullying and threats. As executive producer Mike Carey says, people need to see these pictures so they can understand what happened.
Damn straight. Here’s to SBS and SMH, and I hope not too many of their staff are killed in the rioting.
UPDATE. Posted on February 4: “They won’t publish cartoons, but they will run anything they can get out of Abu Ghraib. Both sets of images provoke Islamic anger; note how the media behaves when that anger is directed at them.”
Henceforth, the SHM needs to print a large yellow stripe down the back page of each edition.
Posted by perfectsense on 2006 02 15 at 03:14 AM • permalinkUnfortunately, hanging it on the Americans sells more papers.
The Islamists only burn them.
Posted by WeekByWeek on 2006 02 15 at 03:15 AM • permalinkSo let me get this straight.
The SMH won’t publish cartoons out of fear that they will upset muslims.
Yet they will publish photos of supposed mistreatment at Abu Graibh, which is well known to upset muslims.
What’s wrong with this picture?
Also how do we that photo is what the SMH claims?
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 15 at 03:28 AM • permalinkClose your tags, blog minions.
I love the smell of Lamestream Media hypocricy in the morning. Smells like… surrender.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 02 15 at 03:43 AM • permalinkA comment on the original post above - Tim, you are one funny, funny bastard. I only found this blog last week, and I already check it several times a day looking for new stuff. F*cking hilarious! Interesting and entertaining. Keep up the good work. :-D
Comment #1 - You nailed it, mate; I completely agree.
Posted by Mr Snuffalupagus on 2006 02 15 at 03:54 AM • permalinkThe executive producer of the SBS programme, Mike Carey, said the pictures would be broadcast “because it is an important matter of public interest that the full story of abuse at Abu Ghraib be told”.
Hyopcrites. Funny also how they talk about ‘new, shocking pictures’ when they were part of the 2004 set, as previously admitted by the US. Their existence has never been a secret.
If you’re going to be provocative, it’s best to do it with people who can’t be provoked.
Is that the SMH’s new masthead?
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 02 15 at 04:06 AM • permalinkTo publish or not to publish.
Washington Post Columnist, Anne Applebaum contends that the Koran flushing fiasco reveals the hypocrisy of right bloggers in the case of the Motoons:
“But although that controversy was every bit as manipulated as this one, self-styled U.S. “conservatives” blamed not cynical politicians and clerics but Newsweek for (accidentally) inciting violence in the Muslim world: “Newsweek lied, people died.” Worse, much of the commentary implied that Newsweek was not only wrong to make a mistake (which it was) but also that the magazine was wrong to investigate the alleged misconduct of U.S. soldiers. Logically, the bloggers should now be attacking the Danish newspaper for (less accidentally) inciting violence in the Muslim world. Oddly enough, though, I’ve heard no cries of “Jyllands-Posten insulted, people died.” The moral is: We defend press freedom if it means Danish cartoonists’ right to caricature Muhammad; we don’t defend press freedom if it means the mainstream media’s right to investigate the U.S. government.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/07/AR2006020701253.htmlUmm, wait a minute ...
Isn’t the last line a beauty
““It think it’s strange, maybe they think its more of the same.”“
So this is so newsworthy the very producer of the show is speculating the other journalists have not pursued it because they think it is more of the same. And he’s willingly telling us this! What next a comedy on SBS where they knowingly tell you jokes you’ve already heard AND advertise it as such.
Add to the charges of cowardice and hypocrisy, dead bloody stupidPosted by the nailgun on 2006 02 15 at 04:56 AM • permalinkThis cultural relativism is pathologic. 5 kinds of madness is OK so long as it’s not committed by the West.
Sheesh.
Posted by Texas Ranger on 2006 02 15 at 05:06 AM • permalinkLike a dog coming back to its own vomit…
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 15 at 05:09 AM • permalink#16 Sounds like Anne is saying it is A-OK for Newsweek to lie about flushing Korans. Serious journalist get a free pass to lie and fabricate by calling it “investigating the US Government.”
Posted by perfectsense on 2006 02 15 at 05:18 AM • permalinkA barking dog from a year old story about s-e-v-e-n service people who made a few murderers feel uncomfortable? Now that’s news! God knows the 34 front page stories in the New York Times were not adequate coverage. The mad rush of thousands to journalism schools to follow in this noble profession will be overwhelming.
Posted by Peter Boston on 2006 02 15 at 05:25 AM • permalinkSend your complaints to .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
SBS has confirmed what I’ve always thought about the left. When it comes to push and shove lefties are wimps. Publish the Mohammed cartoons and SBS will become the target, publish the Abu Gharib photos and the anger can be displaced onto someone they hate anyway.
why would muslims be angry by these photos being published? its good for people to see what the US do to the prisoners in Abu Ghraib.
now evry1 can see the truth..
sure we r angry that the US has done this..have u eva seen the hostages that the iraqis take been mistreated? they are not torturedPosted by Muslim Soul on 2006 02 15 at 05:42 AM • permalinkAnd I thought Mark Humphries was joking when he said all those mean things about the western media (and about those nice leftwing film makers as well).
Yeah Muslim soul - that’s because they are generally dead. No mistreatment there!
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 15 at 05:49 AM • permalinkyer there killed but i a humaine way unlike sum of the prisoners in abu ghraib i dont see ani humainess there.
Posted by Muslim Soul on 2006 02 15 at 05:50 AM • permalink#21 Was Paul Keating at Abu Graibh? Which side of the camera?
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 02 15 at 06:00 AM • permalinkMuslim Soul
Ha,ha,ha,ha, Heads hacked off while beardy weirdys shout allah fubar or something?
Abu was an abberation by the yanks. Head hacking and targeting civillians is mainstream for the idiots.
You must be a troll, or at least a bit sillyPosted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 15 at 06:14 AM • permalink#25 Muslim Soul says: “sure we r angry that the US has done this..have u eva seen the hostages that the iraqis take been mistreated? they are not tortured”
and
#29 yer there killed but i a humaine way unlike sum of the prisoners in abu ghraib
Ummm…Sorry, I’m not the sharpest arrow right here. I guess you are taking the piss, right? If not, EXACTLY how would you describe the practice of sawing the head off a live, conscious (at least initially) person (hostage), videotaping it, then sending it for broadcast by a drooling Al Jazeera? - “Oh! The humanity?” (Sorry ... “o the humantee?”)
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 02 15 at 06:15 AM • permalinkfrollick mole its ‘Allahu akbar’ god is great..
oh and thanks for the insults :)continental there killed nearly rite after the guy starts sawing the head off they cant breath..i call that humaine.
well more humaine then cutting peices of a guys body off and then leaving him to bleed to deathPosted by Muslim Soul on 2006 02 15 at 06:22 AM • permalinkGibbo it aint PBUH its SWT with allah :D
ohh and i can type howeva i want if u dont lyk it then keep it to ureself
Posted by Muslim Soul on 2006 02 15 at 06:23 AM • permalinkMuslim Soul
No Im juite happy with the spelling, the disrespect was purely intentional.
Ive slaughtered a lot of sheep in my day with a knife, Its resonably quick (45 sec or so) if you break the neck as quickly as possible.
Sawing it off would, if I had been perverted, (and thats what they are perverts for allah), a much slower and more terrifying way to go.
You are taking what are abberations, which have been rightly published and punished with terrorist standard operating proceedure.Have a look at the beheading videos, close your eyes and listen to the head hackers in action. Tell me they dont sound like their about to come in their pants with the perverse thrill of what they are doing.
Then come back and say what you realy think.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 15 at 06:32 AM • permalinki dont wanna watch the beheading videos ive heard it be4 the hostages, there gargling lyk they cant breath which means there dieing..
dont u think that its way faster to die that way then being tortured first?
Posted by Muslim Soul on 2006 02 15 at 06:40 AM • permalinkand how can u bee happy with the speelin ay? it dont make sense lyk that it could mean a whole different thing ‘fubar’ the mujahideen certainly dont say that…
Posted by Muslim Soul on 2006 02 15 at 06:43 AM • permalinkthnx 4 th inglish leeesn Mushtaq(POOBAH).
ge ths is heeps beta weyta speol. evry1 wil undastund me muchly beta know.
If you honestly think slicing someones scone off with a rusty blade is ‘humain’ then you are a dickhead. If you are a troll(yes David I’m looking at you) then you are a dickhead.
Game ova (fubar pubah k’ching)
riiiitee gibbo *rolleyes*
i did not say that i lyk wat they do (as in the the iraqi hostage takers)
i was just makin a point that its more humaine then what the US do.
or wont u even agree to that now?and wat the hell is mushtaq supposta mean?
ohh and im sure that uve learned all about islam and you are criticising it aint u? u dont even know anithin in ma religion but u criticise..soo ignorant
Posted by Muslim Soul on 2006 02 15 at 06:53 AM • permalinkWe’ve had the “you don’t know anything about islam” argument ad infintum here. It is a crock of shit. Religious nuts of all persuasions use this argument. Basically it is the same childish crap you get from a spoilt teenager. “You don’t know what it’s like to be me!!”
It simply means that you can move the goalposts anywhere you like at any time. It is a stupid game that has been tried too many times here before and is the quickest way to be banned.
The Mushtaq reference is to a dim witted tool who tried impersonating one of the participants of “the religion of peace(pubah)” before. he was quickly denounced as the idiot that he is. I use Mushtaq because I don’t believe that you are who you say you are. I think you are a shit stirrer or a dumb kid(or both) who has decided to try and mix it with BigTim(XU1-GTHO-P76) for a giggle.
Continue if you like, but if you are who you say you are then try to form a decent argument and do us the favour of spelling correctly so we don’t need a f*cking interpreter.
wat is soo wrong wit ma arguement gibbo? just answer the damn question which is do u think wat the US do is worse than wat u iraqi hostage takers do?
ill get banned? *rolleyes* i dont realli give it wont be the end of ma liffe ya know..
about ma ritin? its a tactic that ive heard from kufaar thousands of times skip evrythin criticise ma ritin
Posted by Muslim Soul on 2006 02 15 at 07:24 AM • permalinkSo MS doesnt want to go near the sexual thrill the beardy weirdys get out of sawing off a head?
American justice deals with their own who step outside the bounds of decency quite well. Unfortunately their powers of deduction only works AFTER they become aware of an offence.
Your boys post snuff porn and are hailed as heros.
All hail to your heros theyve struck another telling blow against the evil enemy
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200602/s1570915.htm
Yup real easy to see your moral eqivilency there??Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 15 at 07:30 AM • permalinkMuslim Soul,
“do u think wat the US do is worse than wat u iraqi hostage takers do?”
No. The boofhead prison guards at Abu Gharib do not represent US. They are misguided and sadistic individuals who have been condemned widely, including by their own government.
The Iraqi terrorists are representative of a destructive strand of “Islam” that has attracted a wide following in Iraq, Palestine, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Morocco, Egypt, England, France, Netherlands, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, Australia, Russia, Pakistan, India, USA, Canada, Bangladesh and China that seeks to kill and maim people who do not conform to their expectations.
I know you’re not an intelligent person MS, so let me spell it out for you…......
Very few in the West would condone what those idiots in Abu Gharib have done. However there would be many more who condone or sypathise with the homicidal tendencies of Iraqi terrorists, let alone those who think similar behaviour is a model to follow.
oh my god!?!?! Look at all this BOLD TEXT!
Tim is going to be BANKRUPTED!!!!
If this was a Kingston run site, the bill would be in the THOUSANDS at this point! Have you people no SHAME???
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There, did that fix things? 5% commish, if you please, Tim…
Posted by Wind Rider on 2006 02 15 at 07:42 AM • permalinkHm. Having one’s head slowly sawn off is more “humane” than having one’s picture taken while one is in a humiliating position. A unique insight into the “mind” of a mental defective.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 02 15 at 07:45 AM • permalinkPS: I’ve just banned Muslim Soul, so don’t bother posting any more replies to his or her inanity.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 02 15 at 07:45 AM • permalinkAwww, I wanted to hear his nuanced version of Jihadi porn….
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 15 at 07:48 AM • permalinkThe Dateline reporter who presented this story didn’t seem too sure of the context of many of the photographs shown. Frequently using words like “seemingly”, “unclear” and “unknown.”
Incredibly bad timing for the claim that, “people need to see these pictures so they can understand what happened”, but that’s one of the pitfalls for those who regularly engage in the audacious and gutless hypocrisy that are the stock-in-trade for trashy programs like Dateline and rags like the SMH!
ps…Gore Vidal is making YET ANOTHER appearance on the ABC again next week!
Thank you Tim!!!
The appalling and outrageous censorship on the Dateline website means that the comments I posted there will never appear. At least dissent is alive and well somewhere!
Settle down everyone . . . I think Muslim Soul was just a wannabe funny bugger taking the piss out of da boyz out West.
Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2006 02 15 at 07:54 AM • permalinkI think “Muslim Soul” was a stupid teenager trolling for fun—in any case, I’m not providing server space for trolls to “take the piss” out of people anywhere.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 02 15 at 08:03 AM • permalinkTim, I went to the SMH using your link. I haven’t seen the SMH before, but purusing its offerings, it became clear the paper is a tabloid at heart.
SMH- Swinish Mohammad Hacks?
Posted by Mystery Meat on 2006 02 15 at 08:11 AM • permalinkhave u eva seen the hostages that the iraqis take been mistreated? they are not tortured
Once their heads are sawn off, there’s no pain at all, eh?
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 02 15 at 08:31 AM • permalinkThat would be the Dhimmi Morning Herald thanks. Now I know why its called the yellow press.
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 15 at 08:40 AM • permalinkYou guys are completely missing the point. A bit of empathy please. Look at it from the standpoint of SMH/SBS/ABC et al.
The Iraqi war has turned against the terrorists. The insurgents are divided and at each others’ throats. The risk that the Government, the US and allies will actually win is grave, clear and immediate. Already it is probably too late. Democracy stalks the country like a vulture in Darfur. The economy is on the mend and the oil is flowing like blood from a slit throat. The benefits are flowing to the people in an audacious and organised attempt at mass bribery. Education, a free media, the rule of law and party politics are spreading across the countryside like the most pestilent noxious weed. Everywhere people are speaking their minds. Their own minds.
They are putting on the most blatant displays of independence and courage almost unchecked.That greatest threat of all could be just around the corner. PEACE. The situation is as serious as that. No exaggeration.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. This is no time to stand on ceremony. Put any residual qualms about cowardice and hypocrisy entirely out of your minds.
What to do? Of course.
Dredge up Abu Graibh.
My theory is that the MSM is doomed owing to insufficient market to print for, the soap opera audience being the biggest single remaining available demographic. So it’s that or nothing, and will soon be nothing. Anyway, that demographic really does the MSM editing for us all, even though it’s a strict minority, and that’s where the national debate used to wind up.
People say they want hard news, but they don’t, really. Think city council meetings.
Mocking the MSM, and indirectly its audience, is a big winner, but for blogs.
The dysfunctional part of the national debate is now the MSM, as in this case.
Various blogs take up the functioning part.
If you could get the vote away from women, things would be perfect
65 rhhardin
The thud you just heard was a rather sneaky manouver by all the other men dropping and covering.
You might be on your own with this one.
Ill just lie here in a fetal ball and wimper a bit till the screaming stops.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 15 at 10:01 AM • permalinkThe SMH is like the child bringing his parents a report card full of D’s, crying, “But Sam got F’s!”
I’m proud of you, son.
Posted by chinesearithmetic on 2006 02 15 at 10:42 AM • permalinkHey, you guys should check this out…Anthony Loewenstein (may God grant him some common sense someday) has sponsored the creation of the Olive Branch Network, apparently in a bid to help stop us evil freaking Westerners from continuing to exploit everyone and make us realise how evil and warlike we are (and how peaceful everyone else is). Latest feature: Abu Ghraib, of course. In other news, this is why teenagers should be forbidden to blog.
Original post from AL’s crap site is here
Posted by Mr Snuffalupagus on 2006 02 15 at 10:51 AM • permalinkThat’s it? That’s the best they can do for moral equivalence - a hooded terrorist being threatened by a barking dog? Sheesh. Even by the standards of those who refer to terrorists as “militants”, humiliation as “torture” and anti-totalitarianism as “racism”, that is incredibly lame. More bathos than pathos. To think that all these years, postmen were being “tortured” without even realising it.
Posted by Jim Geones on 2006 02 15 at 11:11 AM • permalinkWe used to get a lot of posts like MS’s at another board I visit, from the UK. Turns out the company administering the British school system’s computer rooms couldn’t be arsed to hire classroom monitors. So he probably is a spotty little 14-year-old wanker…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 15 at 11:16 AM • permalinkBoth sets of images provoke Islamic anger
Is there actually anything, anything at all, which doesn’t provoke Islamic anger? I think the SMH could save a fortune in printing costs by leaving out the stuff which doesn’t provoke muslims, and go back to being a single sheet of paper.
Posted by Jim Geones on 2006 02 15 at 11:19 AM • permalinkBREAKING NEWS !!!!!!!!!!!!
Dog almost bites man in Iraq two years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 15 at 11:43 AM • permalinkTdw77 #47
They are misguided and sadistic individuals who have been condemned widely, including by their own government.
And imprisoned. In Leavenworth. And when they get out, these pictures will still be in circulation. Plus, who knows, SHOCKING NEW !!!! REVELATIONS will develop, at about two-year intervals, the whole time they’re in prison. This story has more legs than a centipede, and it’s twice as pretty.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 15 at 11:59 AM • permalinkPW (#55)
Mac OSX Safari browser shows all posts below #7 in bolds, and all then numbered as “1.”
Firefox has post #7 in bold, then returns to normal text and sequential numbering of posts.
Thanks for the tip, it was driving me dotty (or more than usually dotty) trying to read comments, especially the semi literate SMS texter masquerading as a moslem.
Firefox is now the default browser.Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 02 15 at 12:02 PM • permalinkMS 44
its a tactic that ive heard from kufaar thousands of times skip evrythin criticise ma ritin
They haven’t skipped everything else, you lying turd. They’ve criticized your stupid and dishonest ideas ALONG with your incoherent and illiterate writing.
And if you’re going to use racist language like “skip” ... oh never mind, I’ll waste no irony on your stupid ass.Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 15 at 12:03 PM • permalinkSteyn is right. Western media don’t have to worry about provoking the gun-totin’ Great Satan into rampaging, retributive violence over the publication of anything, no matter how slanderous or offensive.
Instead, they live in physical fear, not of Bushitler’s police state and military machine, but of those cast in the role of the downtrodden and oppressed in their endless Marxist morality play.
Well, I’m sure we’ll see more self-censorship in the future. The Chinese won’t put up with global media’s ankle-biting, show-boating sanctimoniousness.
A few contracts withheld from the right countries—and with them, hard currency and jobs—will accomplish what Muslim mobs have to burn down embassies to get.
Let’s see how many are willing to champion free speech when there are real consequences—like physical harm, today, or impoverishment, tomorrow. I suspect not many.
Does anyone else find the irony in the MSM’s complaints, one the one hand, that the Chimpy W. McHitlerburton neo-cons are wrongly exploiting the fear of terrorism—really, nothing to be fearful of, it’s just a law enforcement and intelligence gathering operation—in order to justify the war machine, while on the other, the only (barely) credible reason offered for not publishing the illustrations is the fear of violence from Islamists?
How does the MSM champion the concept of “speaking truth to power” when capitulating the freedom of speech and press expression, at the drop of a hat, when faced with intimidating speech?
#83-robb:
The abu Ghraib story is so old the miscreants have been put on trial, convicted, sentenced, and jailed.
And your point is??
I guess your point is it’s okay for Islamic terrorists to run around sawing heads off. As an infidel, you’re at the same risk of getting your head hacked off as the rest of us.
Careful whom you side with.
Enjoy your freedom…while it lasts.
What? Abu Ghraib again?!? Don’t they know that Apophis is coming? We’re all DOOOOOOOMED anyway, so who cares about some scrungy Arab guys with their underwear on their heads.
#83:
I’m a yank, and if the “world” can’t see the difference between a psychopathic monster who committed genocide against his own people and a democracy trying to end that monster’s reign, then the world’s just going to have to get used to being annoyed. We’re only too happy to keep spreading the freedom, troll-boy.“if the “world” can’t see the difference between a psychopathic monster who committed genocide against his own people and a democracy trying to end that monster’s reign”
right and in order to ‘end that monster’s reign’ you can just break a few international treaties and torture the shit out of ‘prisoners’....go team america! keep up the good
torturework :) Nothing like a bit of good old fashioned democratic american torture!Ok, What about all the dictatorships that were worse than Saddam? What about N.Korea, Zimbabwe, Liberia, Rwanda, Congo? to name a few? The right wing bullshit stance that Bush is a fuckin humanitarian is such a load of shit. There were no weapons in fuckin iraq and it was well known…I think what really pisses you yanks off is not that the war was illegal and there was no weapons in the first place, its that youre losing the war and looking like tossers doing it. Iraq is a bloody mess and every day it gets worse.
#16 Applebaum - Koran flushing and Motoons: “We defend press freedom if it means Danish cartoonists’ right to caricature Muhammad; we don’t defend press freedom if it means the mainstream media’s right to investigate the U.S. government.”
You can hear the timbers straining with this one. The MSM is fearless in its (half-cocked) investigations of the very people who stand between us and Islamist killers and relishes it when all hell breaks loose but if there’s any chance someone’ll come after THEM, they get all sensitive and culture-huggy and decide that freedom of speech is not so important after all.
And leave fellow journos twisting in the wind.
“good old fashioned American torture”? Who is this jerk? The American military initiated the investigation, and prosecuted those they could. That’s been noted for the last two years, and in preceeding posts on this thread. The question was: why are elements of the MSM parading more pictures of this, especially since they have been available for two years? Moreover, since incidents at Abu Gharib tended to “inflame the Arab street” and since the media is suddenly keen to avoid provoking people, why now? And why not the cartoons?
thats pretty simple…see post 91, he hit the nail on the head. Aww..am i jerk just cos i dont agree with you? The world deserves to see what the yanks are doing in the name of ‘freedom and democacy’. I realise the photos are 2 years old but we still have the right to see what these ignorant rednecks in the army have been doing.
#90: Oh, absolutely; if only we hsd invaded any of those places, we would have received the resounding cheers of the Left. And with respect to Rwanda and Zimbabwe, where is your (presumably) beloved UN? Where is Europe? On the one hand, you claim that we are blundering about doing harm; but on the other, you condemn us for not taking part in your pet skirmishes. Zimbabwe, Congo, North Korea - all hell holes, granted. Iraq was also a hell hole. If we had chosen to take up arms to put an end to the psychopathic regimes in one or more of those other countries, would you have been pleased? Or would you now be belaboring us for letting Sadaam get away with murder while we went on a wild nuke chase in North Korea?
The American military initiated the investigation, and prosecuted those they could
...let’s not forget the small detail that the American press broke the story in the first place, too. So our tale goes: some american journalists found out that a handful of American soldiers were committing crimes. They released this news in the American press. The American public was outraged. The American government acted, and the American military tried the perpetrators and found them guilty.
so how is this a lesson that “Americans are bad?”Posted by daddy dave on 2006 02 15 at 03:21 PM • permalinkSure, Robb. Vicious, genocidal regimes are usually removed by a UN subcommittee in strict accordance with various treaties, using a time-tested regime-change checklist, etc., etc. There are, why, zillions of examples.
The whole process is capped off by an elaborately-choreographed ceremony where the current secretary general of the UN waves a sceptre and decrees a fully-functioning free market democracy, henceforth, and everyone lives happily ever after.
Yep, that’s just the way we got rid of global fascism 60 years ago. Nobody got roughed up, none of the china got broken, and political stability occured the day after VE and VJ day. It all went so smoothly and painlessly that Europe has spent the ensuing years lecturing the rest of us on matters of global order maintenance.
Drop by more often . . .
Blue Hen: I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the MSM is playing up the Abu Ghraib pictures as a way of winking at the so-called Arab street, “We’re really with you, you know”.
Don’t waste your breath on robb. If anybody else here feels like putting him through a 12-step program for fact-deprived leftyholics, be my guest. He’s just sloganeering, as far as I can tell, and when he winds up as head eunuch in some Australian Emir’s harem, we’ll see how he feels about America “rednecks”, then.
For a guy who doesn’t like being called a jerk, you have no problems smearing every person who serves in the American armerd forces as being “rednecks”.Unlike the American military, you see fit to condem them as such without benefit of a trial.
Also, I never said that it shouldn’t have been covered, or exposed, or prosecuted. I questioned why the media, and you, are fighting to run out pictures two years old, but are silent as to the refusal to publish caroons. If the cartoons were against the US military, would you then be in favor of publishing them?No, I wouldnt be pleased if you attacked any other countries, nor am i suggesting you do. All im saying is that there are worse places than iraq and the bullshit theory that bush is a humanitarian trying to help some oppressed people is a load of shit and you know it as well as i do. Its about oil, and power positions in the middle east. By the way i say publish the cartoons for sure. Of course they should be published, there cannot be favouritism towards Muslims when it comes to satire. Muslims in the West have to realise and accept that. The redneck comment was directed at Lyndie England and her torturing buddies, not “every person who serves in the American armerd forces”
The general who failed to run the jail properly wasn’t a redneck. She was lazy, and failed to supervise or train the troops under her command. Associating those crimes with the term redneck is wrong, and inadequate to describe what transpired. Generalizations and smears such as rednecks only serve to alienate people and hinders discussion, problem resolution and
healing.
So there are worse places than Iraq? What then should be done? And who’s going to do it? Are you Australian? North Korean missiles are a greater threat to you than they are to me. You should take it far more seriously than you are. Since Australians are our allies, (even you) we care. Remember that they’ve already heaved test missiles over Japan.
As for the crack about humanitarian aid, the American and Australian military delievered more aid, faster, then the other UN members combined. Most simply do not have the capability to respond. They haven’t bothered to invest in heavy lift helicopters, transports an ships that can conduct such missions.“Its about oil, and power positions in the middle east”
Sadaam would have been glad to cut any deal on oil that we wanted, if we would have left him in power, so the argument that “it’s just about oil” is complete -to use your own elegant phrasing - bull shit. And in keeping with Orwell’s stricture that one needs to keep stating the obvious, the intelligence agencies of the UK, France, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, not to mention the Clinton administration and any number of Democratic senators and congressmen, were ALL convinced that Sadaam had WMD’s.
Yeah, Robb. And if we ever went after any of the crackpot regimes you listed—and didn’t go about it sensitively enough, or according to proper powder-blue helment protocols—you’d either bitch about what bullies we were or ask why we’re not dealing with the others, too.
I think what really pisses YOU off is that none of us buy your tired ‘illegal war’ trope, Iraq is the fastest growing economy in the Arab world and none of your lot’s pre-war predictions of apocalypse turned out.
#60, #64, #65 etc.
one thing I’m confused about. How come the political position of the SMH is obvious to everyone but me? If you look at their columnists, they have plenty of conservatives (e.g., Michael Duffy; Miranda Devine; Gerard Henderson), centrists like Ross Gittins (maybe slightly left), Paul Sheehan (slightly right), Julia Baird (who recently implored liberals to support war in the middle east) as well as liberal journalists like David Marr (who is strongly anti-censorship! I’d like to hear from him about the cartoon controversy). In fact, they don’t have any big names, apart from Leunig I guess, who you could call Hard Left. The SMH looks pretty balanced to me, and gives me lots of good reading.
That doesn’t excuse the hypocrisy, of course. But my guess is that the photo/cartoon imbalance is mostly cowardice at the management level.Posted by daddy dave on 2006 02 15 at 03:58 PM • permalinkP.S. And unless you can offer proof (not tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories) that the administration knew for certain there were no WMDs in Iraq, or you were one of the handful of people, Saddam included, who claimed there were absolutely no WMDs at all in Iraq, then your ‘argument’ is nothing more than baseless, retroactive opportunism.
But just keep repeating it if it makes you feel better.
So why arent any of you righteous Yankee twats over in Eye-raq then? If its such a great place? Yeah man im pissed that Iraq turned out to be the veritable Eden of democracy and prosperity that it is! haha…talk about crackpot theories…jesus!...i think America should stay out of other peoples buisness, including the counties i mention before. Why would Saddam cut a deal to stay in power? As far as he was concerned he was staying in power no matter what happened. He was dilusional. If you should learn anything from the Europeans, its that Imperialism doesnt work and you cannot push democracy on a country that doesnt want it. So youve never heard of Hans Blix then?
From # 83 to # 107 is um is 24 posts. That’s how long it took “robb” to get from introduction to “chickenhawk” splatter.
Man, they don’t build trolls like they used to.Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 15 at 04:26 PM • permalink#107 Imperialism doesnt work and you cannot push democracy on a country that doesnt want it.
So you can’t push democracy where it’s not wanted, huh? Right, like the non-democracies in Singapore, Malaysia, India, South Africa, etc. (apologies to Mark Steyn). And of course, there are so many people around the world who don’t want democracy. No, sir. They hate the idea of having a say in who runs their country. They don’t like being given the chance to vote. Can’t stand the thought of not living under a dictator.
People the world over, they’re not saying “we don’t want democracy”. It’s totalitarian governments saying it on their behalf, stupid.Posted by daddy dave on 2006 02 15 at 04:26 PM • permalinkrobb is a 14 year old that discovered a place he can swear in print, while establishing his credentials as historically illiterate.
OK, robb, recess is over, back to practicing grammar, punctuation, spelling before you suffer an an aneurysm.
Hans Blix reported to the UN Security Council that Iraq did not and was not complying with the final—and all previous—UN resolution(s).
Other than that, never heard of him. Why?
#107 i think America should stay out of other peoples buisness, including the counties i mention before
that list being among others, North Korea, Rwanda, and Zimbabwe. Let’s add Iran, Somalia, and Burma just for the hell of it (surely we can agree on that). so let me get this straight. You advocate doing nothing about persecution, enslavement, starvation, and genocide of nations or entire regions of nations. America should do nothing about those regimes. Is that your position? No sanctions? No aid to democracy movements? No aid to the starving, even?
Geez. And I thought the left were the ones with bleeding hearts.
See, if you take a left opinion on Iraq, you’re immediately cornered into a completely stupid position on basically cut-and-dry moral questions everywhere else on the planet.
Here’s a question for you then: how does the existence of terrorist organizations in Iraq make America the bad guy? Wait, before you speak ... I can see your hand in the air #107 ... keep in mind that the main targets of these terrorist attacks are not Americans, but Iraqi civilians. okay, go ahead. your answer please #107.Posted by daddy dave on 2006 02 15 at 04:38 PM • permalinksorry, I posted that before I got told to ignore the ankle-biter.
Posted by daddy dave on 2006 02 15 at 04:40 PM • permalinkrobb #99: All im saying is that there are worse places than iraq…</i></b>
Uhm… are there worse places that have also violated a cease fire agreement more than 2000 times?
Robb, go to the UN website and actually sit down and READ UNSC Resolution 687, the Gulf War Cease Fire Agreement. The violations of the Cease Fire Agreement are all the authority that the US needed to invade Iraq.
The ONLY problem I have with the Iraq war is that it should have started the FIRST time Saddam violated the Cease Fire, back in 1991.
Posted by mamapajamas on 2006 02 15 at 04:52 PM • permalink“talk about crackpot theories”
No Robb. This is the judgment of the IMF and the World Bank. But, I guess I’ll take your word for it . . .
You could be right about one thing, though—maybe we should have stayed out of Europe’s business a half century ago and throughout the Cold war, for all the grief we’ve had to put up with from them since.
“you cannot push democracy on a country that doesnt want it”
Funny. I don’t recall the Japanese or Koreans—or the Germans, for that matter—clamoring for democracy before those respective wars.
BTW here’s what Robin W had to say
“The US will apologize to the world for our “interference” in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those “good ‘ole’ boys”, we will never “interfere” again.2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, theMiddle East, and the Philippines. They don’t want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.
TIM says that Newspapers such as the SMH will only publish items that are offensive to ISlam when the reaction to those Itens are directed at the US or Israel or their own government and culture.
Such is the moral fibre of the SMH, the NYT, the ABC and so ,many others who have now become fifth columnists and appalling hypocrits.
But they are not Alone. Corporstions a re doing the same.
Carrefour the french retail giant has posted signs in its supermarkets in Arabic“Dear Clients, We express solidarity with the Islamic and Egyptian community. Carrefour doesn’t carry Danish products.” It’s strictly business as usual, and yet another example of our rampant amorality.
So lets Boycott such outfits and do our best to restore a monicum of decency in the west.#121 please see my post at #105.
I havent seen where Tim has made that accusation about the SMH but if he did, he’s wrong (*waits for lightning to strike*).
The SMH regularly publishes pieces about Islam, such as this piece about the Muslim world’s culture of death. That’s not a solitary example, either. There have been extensive reports in the SMH about hate-mongering in the Australian Islamic community etc., and lots of pro-war opinion pieces (as well as anti-war ones). I think the case for SMH being ‘fifth column’ is non-existent, apart from their cowardice in not publishing the toons.Posted by daddy dave on 2006 02 15 at 06:03 PM • permalinkLotta Daves here today. I like that.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 15 at 06:15 PM • permalink123
Lots of Goliaths too!
122
yes conceded tim merely is mentioning a post that i cannot trace.
Luenig is not A HARD LINE LEFTIST to be sure.
More of a religious apologist who sees us all guilty of terrible sins and specially the jews.But of course he will never satirize the Left, who have reached a higher level of understanding and humanity.The views that Jews shoud have no right of self determination or selfdefence is of course shared by many hard line leftists.
I saw Jon Mangos on sunrise justifying the SBS showing of the Abu Ghraib pics. As far as I could understand he was somehow justifying the story by telling us we don’t re-run images of Anglo Saxons jumping out of the World Trade centre and flagellate ourselves. Remarkable.
The fact remains SBS ran to publish pics that hurt our cause and are not brave enough to run cartoons.
Treacherous cowards.SBS are slaves to UBERmulticulturism and cultural pluralism. It is defined in their charter.
Any outrage committed by other non western culture is merely a response to our own shameful imperialism and must be addressed as such.
Any show of resistance comes by definition from morally perverse RIGHT WING racists and must be atoned for by more self flagellation.
Such is the philosophy of the culture of guilt laden public funded media companies.Robb, not that you’re even worth responding to, but everyone agrees that Abu Ghraib was a disgusting, disgraceful, sickening and criminal act, but it’s been done to death!
Iraq was a special case, it demanded action. Twelve years of failed U.N. sanctions, 17 chapter 7 resolutions violated, and continuing acts of agression against American and British aircraft patrolling the ‘no fly’ zones in the north and south.
How can you still conclude that the war was illegal? Because it wasn’t sanctioned by the U.N., whose ‘democratic’ processes we now know were so corrupted by one of the biggest bribery scandals in history!
The other cases you mention, North Korea, Zimbabwe, and others like Chechnya, the Darfur region in Sudan, the child soldiers of northern Uganda, the slaves of Niger, the 1000 dead a day in the Congo… HOW MUCH HAND-WRINGING DO LEFTY HYPOCRITES LIKE YOU DO ABOUT THE VICTIMS OF THOSE CONFLICTS??? ZERO! Because unless it’s fashionable, unless it can be used to whack the U.S., unless it can be exploited as a platform for greater personal exposure, the Left simply, and RUTHLESSLY turn their back! Bleeding hearts??? Yeah sure!
Tim,
Can you please explain to us how you equate the depiction of a prophet, which is clearly forbidden by religious text, with the depiction of American soldiers torturing Iraqis?
I understand your servile admiration for the US, Tim, but are you suggesting that they deserve a divine respect?
Also, I’m assuming that your love of free speech will see you publish the torture pictures?
Posted by gustov_deleft on 2006 02 15 at 08:48 PM • permalinkMuslim Soul’s use of *rolleyes* in #41 and #44 caught my eye. It seemed familiar. So I did a search and found two more uses of it and two variants.
RebbecaH used the variant [/rolleyes] twice (at #64 on Forbidden story mentioned and at #4 on George Monoway).
Crusader used the variant [rolleyes] once (at #14 on Tsunamey).
The most recent use of *rolleyes* in a thread other than this one was by Muslim Soul (at #41 on Linus corrupted by infidels).
But the first and only other use of *rolleyes* was by proud2be@muslimah (at #31 on Fox turns chicken).
I think they’re the same person.
#132 - Palate_Cleft - I agree. Tim should post pictures of ‘shitboy’ who had POOP smeared all over him. Oh wait, the poor bastard coated himself in poop.
Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 15 at 09:13 PM • permalinkGustov
Tim is not saying that the SMH shouldn’t have published the pictures. He is poking fun at the faux bravado of the SMH headline, which read something along the lines of:
The pictures that the US didn’t want you to see
The SMH were acting as if they are being brave by publishing photos which are available to the public.
Compare and contrast the defiant tone of this headline, where there is absolutely zero chance of any member of the SMH coming to harm, with the snivelling, cowardly, dhimmitudinal decision not to publish some satirical cartoons of a 1500 year-old murderous, camel-pestering, paedophilic snake-oil merchant.
#132 I’m not tim (sorry), but I’ll tell you why I equate them: they’re both news. I don’t take offense at the Abu Ghraib photos being posted. I take offense at news outlets being intimidated into obeying the rules of a religion that wants to cause widespread death and destruction.
If you’re going to show one set of pictures and not the other, then you’re either biased (hello SBS) or scared of being torched.
There’s no reason for Tim to show the torture pictures because they’re everywhere already. If he’s going to do that, he may as well run Reuters copy. The cartoons, on the other hand, were widely censored, so there was a news interest and a public interest in showing them.Posted by daddy dave on 2006 02 15 at 09:27 PM • permalink#132 Gust_cleft
I’m assuming that you will grow a brain and read Tim’s posts over the last few weeks, but it doesn’t mean it’ll happen…
We assumer’s are oppressed.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 15 at 09:36 PM • permalink#133 Janice,
Damn, that was good detective work. Now could you possibly tell me who borrowed the time machine? It’s not where I very responsibly and at no fault whatsoever parked it.
(I’m thinking Michael Lonie, Stoop Davy Dave, and Mark L went back to steal the Golden Fleece for SDD’s disguise. But knowing them, they probably just went back for more Mesopotamian Mead. They’re addicted.).
Posted by wronwright on 2006 02 15 at 09:52 PM • permalink# 132 Can you please explain to us how you equate the depiction of a prophet, which is clearly forbidden by religious text,
Can someone, anyone, explain why when the Egyptian newspaper al Fajar published 6 of the original 12 cartoons depicting images of the profit (god bless him) in October 2005, an act clearly forbidden by religious text....nobody gave a rats arse.
Posted by Mikie Slats on 2006 02 15 at 09:55 PM • permalink#132 I think they’re the same person.
Right on the money Janice.
Posted by Mikie Slats on 2006 02 15 at 09:57 PM • permalink#140 murph,
I do…#139 yes, he could be more obnoxious. He could torch an embassy. That would be more obnoxious.
Posted by daddy dave on 2006 02 15 at 10:23 PM • permalinkTIME FOR SOME FUN!
Go over to that idiot Lowenstein’s site at
http://olivebranchoptimism.blogspot.com/
and scroll down, look on the left hand sidebar.
The clown as a poll up on the evils of depleted uranium ammo, but there is an option to click to keep it regardless.
Well? What are you waiting for??
MarkL
Canberra# 142
The last I heard a bunch of women took it to pick up #65 rhhardin and drop him among the Amazons for a week in the period before some were corrupted by certain Scythians to whom they took a fancy. (See Herodotus iv 110-117) They invited frollickingmole along but he wussed out.
If rhh is still alive when they pick him up he might have had enough practice at being alert to realise that even Loonig, Fisk and Lowenstein have dangly bits and that, therefore, possession of such cannot be regarded as the sine qua non of rightthinkingness.
#147:
Of the ten whole votes that have been cast in that survey (including mine), 80% of respondents have voted to “keep, regardless”. I think this demonstrates, among other things, that most visitors to Antoine’s swingin’ new blog are probably just
trouble-makersinquiring minds from Tim B.‘s site. Mark L, you’re an electioneering genius! Karl Rove Wants You!Wussyness is just another word for not nutered yet.
Do you have any idea of the liberties the artists took when depicting the amazons. They make your average hippie feral look like Ms Manners.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 15 at 11:34 PM • permalinkI object to the use of depleted uranium ammunition. Why do they have to deplete the uranium?
BTW, I think that #132 Gusty_cleft is Dandrew because they: both like to “assume”, both ask patronising questions, and both have the tone of someone with an item jammed in an orifice.
At least I hope so, because all good RWDBs need weak people to pick on. Come back Gusty/Dandrew.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 15 at 11:35 PM • permalinkWe have had quite the infestation of drooling trolls here recently - thank God. Bags of fun for everyone before Andrea plays whack-a-troll. (Hey, Andrea, don’t whack the manky little buggers so fast, some of us are missing out on the fun!)
But has anyone noticed how low-quality the trolls have become? I mean, look at this pathetic clown Robb (Muslim pig-shagger was too low quality a troll even to bother with):
‘Ok, What about all the dictatorships that were worse than Saddam? What about N.Korea, Zimbabwe, Liberia, Rwanda, Congo? to name a few?’
NOTICE: The ancient leftist cry of anguish! ‘If one destroys one of my favourite socialist governments, one must destroy them all!’ How many times have we seen this hilarious line of twaddle. Nothing new here, same old pitiful inanity. Listen to this troll’s calls for an end to the Darfur genocide where thousands of people are killed each month:... crickets chirping…
erm, well moving right along then! As a lefty (and by definition a racist bigot, as his own words prove), ‘if they are only black people being murdered by Arabs, they do not count’.
The right wing bullshit stance that Bush is a fuckin humanitarian is such a load of shit.
NOTICE: The delicately phrased, poetic magic of the troll in full cry. Such nuanced understanding, it is so… left. Such glory of English expression, such delectable proof that the lefty troll now adds ‘closed-minded hate speech’ to his impeccable credentials as a racist bigot.There were no weapons in fuckin iraq and it was well known…
NOTICE: The blind adherence to disproved Daily Kos, ultra-idiotic moonbat theory. Our troll adds ignoring inconvenient facts and strict adherence to demonstrably false lefty dogma to ‘hate speech’ and to his credentials as a racist bigotI think what really pisses you yanks off is not that the war was illegal and there was no weapons in the first place, its that youre losing the war and looking like tossers doing it. Iraq is a bloody mess and every day it gets worse.
NOTICE: The stunningly stupid, ignorant, and ill-informed nature of the troll. The perfect storm of inability to rationally process information, coupled with the wilful ignorance of inconvenient fact and blind gullibility in swallowing the MSM agenda.
And so our troll adds ignorance and stupidity to his demonstrated virtues of strict adherence to demonstrably false lefty dogma to ‘hate speech’ and to his credentials as a racist bigot.LOVE your work, little Rob, please post more. Perhaps something on how much you love National Socialism (you will be bog-ignorant of the fact that the Ba’athist movement is a clone of the old NSDAP), or on why ‘racially inferior little brown people’ should never enjoy the freedoms you do!
That is all such familiar ground for racially bigoted, ignorant lefties like you.
UNLIKE you, we think that the Enlightenment was for all humanity, that people deserve to be free, and that your beloved National Socialists deserve a bullet in the head for their crimes.
Now dry your eyes, princess, and toddle off. Sucking your thumb will help you. SO will rejoining your favourite leftist circle jerk, where you can boast about how you were SO big and brave in furthering the rev-o-loo-shun all by your little self. They will gasp and coo with delight at your bwavery - then: group hugs! The big bad RWDB’s will only be icky to you if you come back -and you don’t want your poor little delusional worldview to be challenged, do you?
MarkL
CanberraWron, re 142
(I’m thinking Michael Lonie, Stoop Davy Dave, and Mark L went back to steal the Golden Fleece for SDD’s disguise. But knowing them, they probably just went back for more Mesopotamian Mead. They’re addicted.).
Who? Us? NO way. We are NOT addicted to Mesopotamian Mead. And you KNOW that SDD steers clear of disguising himself as a sheep after that dreadful gum-boot-and-velcro-gloves incident in Dunedin, New Zealand…
... oops, SDD told me never to mention that… but all us minions know why he was walking funny that week, so I guess it does not count.
Anyhoo, moving right along then, the last time we saw the time machine was when we polished it. And that drunken singing coming from behind the door of the polishing rags cupboard last night was NOT US.
MarkL
CanberraWell, I voted MarkL…and after reading a few lines of A.Lowenstein’s tripe, voted again with my mouse.
I am all for peace, mind you, but not at any price.
DU, at p greater density than lead, shortens wars because of it’s effectiveness as artillery ordnance. It’s peacetime applications are manifold (radical new designs for forklifts using DU counterweights, radiation shielding, sailboat keels…)
As my first response to ANY blog was ill-received here, I have done some homework, toured many blogger sites, and learned a bit about this medium.
My research will be better founded (vis. millenialism in Islam), and my opinions couched in terms less likely to cause readers to ignore all comment for the sake of one error in fact.
On topic: Shame. Shame on those who would deride the heroic efforts of the “brave lion hearts” (see letter written by mayor of Tall Afar thanking troops for freedom from Al Q’aeda in Iraq)—all for the sake of some sanctimonius bowing and scraping to the fascist muslim mob mentality.
I have to pay taxes for Commonwealth games to host countries that have nothing and common and little wealth, as well as two (count’em two) left-wing organs of doublethink—the ABC and SBS.
At least I can choose to buy or not to buy a newspaper.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 02 15 at 11:56 PM • permalinkb.t.w., for those who haven’t read the Mayor’s letter:
http://willtoexist.com/files/NajimlettertoCasey.pdf
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 02 16 at 12:11 AM • permalink#148 The last I heard a bunch of women took it to pick up #65 rhhardin and drop him among the Amazons for a week in the period before some were corrupted by certain Scythians to whom they took a fancy. (See Herodotus iv 110-117) They invited frollickingmole along but he wussed out.
(winces)
Um, thanks Janice.
(thinks back to the Neocon-a-rama Party a couple weeks back when a few very comely ladies offered to buy several strawberry daiquiris for me and laugh at my minion jokes; maybe not such a good idea now that I think about it; course there was a lot of decolletage)
You didn’t happen to mention my name to rhhardin did you?
(better keep a low profile in the Secret Vatican Library; neocons never go into a library, secret or otherwise; I’ll be hidden for weeks)
Would you happen to know which shopping mall they left the Tardis at?
Posted by wronwright on 2006 02 16 at 12:19 AM • permalinkMark L
Canberra,It is not incumbent on pundits to talk about anything. If that is your logic, why aren’t you outraged that Tim Blair would prefer to point out spelling errors than to call for more action to be taken on Darfur? Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve Seen any right-wing blogs discussing Darfur in any detail at all. Seems extremely hypocritical to me.
Also, I agree that Antony Loewenstein is a bit of a whinging girl, however, you should check you links before posting them otherwise Tim might devote an entire thread to your inaccuracy.
Posted by gustov_deleft on 2006 02 16 at 02:47 AM • permalink#160 - Palate_Cleft.
Dont worry about Darfur old son, the ‘United Nations’ is onto the problem.
They’ve upgraded the situation from ‘concerning’ to ‘very concerning’.Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 16 at 03:48 AM • permalinkWell frankly i would love to clean up the Zimbabwe problem, its something of a disgrace that that swine/buffoon has been allowed to systematically ruin a fairly decent country…
But then isn’t it wonderful that the african countries around it can’t sort out that mess in their own backyard, such a bunch of handwringers not wanting to offend any of their neighbours, gotta keep da brotherhood tight coz their human rights records are probably just as spotty i suppose…
but i can’t help wondering if rather than a big grandiose invasion, we couldn’t just slip some officers in the armed forces a few bucks to whack that creep??? seems cheaper and simpler and hopefully maybe someone only half as bad comes to the surface?? i know that maybe wishful thinking on my part, but it would be worth a try for all the blacks and whites that are now suffering and going without food, etc… its got to be a cheaper option than all the long term food aid we’ll have to give this basketcase that the genius running the place has turned it into…
of course if the west did get involved in trying to help liberate zimbabwe, the cries of the lefty chomskyites amongst us accusing us of every secret agenda under the sun, would only be drowned out by the tired bunch of corrupt, inept jokes that pass for your average african head of state these days mouthing off the old mantra of the West wanting to re-impose colonialism/serfdom on the poor black people of africa….
so instead of maybe a bit of short term, hopefully limited pain, because we hate to be labelled as imperalist, the people in those poor countries are subjected to long term suffering, degradation and slaughter by a bunch of power hungry, greedy maniacs….
similarly i would like to see something done about Darfur, but instead of the Yanks, Poms and Aussies being stretched to the limit and bled dry globally, i’d like the wonderful europeans to get off their duff and put a few of their soldiers in the firing line, rather than skulking around in relatively safe “peace keeping’ missions where stubbing your toe is about the biggest danger they face… the gutless Dutch already have or are contemplating backing out of sending some troops to Afghanistan to help support some Aussie troops we are planning on sending, becoz it might be a bit to dangerous for them… one of them might even get shot or something???
the gutless europeans need to stand up and do something, and Darfur would be as good a place as any to show us what they’re made of… rather than the same old countries having to do all the heavy lifting, and put their young men in the firing line, then be harangued for trying to be the world’s policeman and forcing democracy on people… i mean give me a break!!!!
No. 160 my_guts_have_left
You are new around here, aren’t you? It really shows. This issue has been addressed in this forum, and is a constant matter of reference - usually as ‘oh God it is still going on, the UN are still doing NOTHING, and the left is still focussed on Abu Ghraib while lubing themselves up for the islamofascists (they DO prefer goats, but a leftist makes a nice change for them).
What bothers me is that the ‘progressive left’:
ignore ethnic cleansing (where the US is not involved)
ignore UN inaction (where the US is not involved)
support islamic fascism (against the US and us)
want to surrender their freedoms (bought at great cost in lives)
despise all religion (except islam)
and are racially bogotted to the core.I have had comments on UN inaction in Darfur removed from leftist sites as not being ‘on topic’.
I have NEVER had such a comment removed from any rightist site, irrespective of topic.
That says something.
Here is a good bet: I reckon that if ANYONE who is a reasonably known quantity at this site were to write up a good-quality guest post on Darfur, I bet that Tim would allow it as a guest post on his blog.
MarkL
Canberra#160 - Palate_Cleft.
I have quite often challenged lefty peace lovers to expose their plans to “save” Zimbabwe.
Best way to kill a thread on Kindymedia bar none. You can enlighten us with your brilliance if you wish. Outline your plan to restore rule of law, abolish poverty, and bring peace to Zimbabwe. As a time frame we are allowed to start chanting “quagmire” about 3 months in. Your time starts now…
Just keep in mind bar a few thousand kleptocrats much of southern africa is WORSE OFF than under the nasty collonialists. (big generalisation but Im in an expansive mood).Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 16 at 06:07 AM • permalinkYour First mistake, MarkL, is to assume that I’m a leftist.
Let’s set the record straight, the UN is useless, no arguments from me, but since when has the most powerful country on earth required UN approval for its actions. Do they possess a UN mandate for their actions in Iraq? Why is the US in Iraq when such a horrendous genocide is taking place in Darfur? Following the UN and US failure in Rwanda, Clinton spoke on behalf of all Americans by stating that the United States will never allow such a tragedy to occur again. Why is it happening then?
You blame leftist? Leftist are spineless in many facets, but what control do they have? Conservative governments are in control, and you know it.
Please don’t make me defend the moonbats, but for goodness sake, do us all a favour and put away your mock horror. The conservatives are as quiet on Darfur as the Left.
Posted by gustov_deleft on 2006 02 16 at 07:51 AM • permalinkFollowing the UN and US failure in Rwanda, Clinton spoke on behalf of all Americans by stating that the United States will never allow such a tragedy to occur again. Why is it happening then?
Because talk is cheap. As for Clinton speaking on behalf of all Americans, what’s the Australian term for sanctimonious bull****?Clinton, Madaline Albright (Sec of State) and Richard Clarke all knew of the extent of the crimes in Rawanda, as did the UN. They forbade the use of the term “genocide”. They chose not to enter.
Here’s a thought. If the UN is as useless as you claim, and the US is running amok, then why do you feel that you have the right to question when where, how or why the US deploys troops? Gee, this chickenhawk argument can be fun!#165 Darfur, where Arab Muslims are committing genocide on non-Arab Muslims. Yes, it’s horrific. Yes, it’s an atrocity.
Why is the US in Iraq when such a horrendous genocide is taking place in Darfur?
I guess you can’t do everything. Geez, they just removed the Taliban AND Saddam Hussein, but hey, a superpower’s work is never done.
What do you suggest? pull out of Iraq and go save Darfur? If America did that, Iraq could become another Darfur. What action, exactly, would you like to see America take in the Sudan? Seriously. let’s hear some concrete suggestions, rather than the usual, “you’re not solving all the world’s problems at once, therefore you’re a hypocrite” argument.Posted by daddy dave on 2006 02 16 at 10:42 AM • permalinkFor a start, it was the UN’s and THE WORLD’S failure in rwanda, i don’t see why just the world body and the US failed…
the one thing u can absolutely bloody count on is that China and Russia are never gonna lift a damn finger to stop any abuses or help anyone coz they commit so many themselves and they don’t want to set a precedent of interfering in case it boomerangs on themselves!!!!
secondly u say what can the left do, well clinton’s government was a left of centre government, and they did didly squat in Rwanda, and had to be pushed into doing anything in Bosnia after they let that drag out and the massacres continue… even Jacque Chirac wanted to do something to stop the atrocities before Clinton finally found some balls to do something…. and he let Al Quaida grow and commit one attack after another… and most of europe has been, or is being, run by left of centre governments and still they do nothing…
it isn’t coz they have no power that the lefties never solve any of the problems of the world… its becoz, apart from being cowards, most of them live in some fantasy world and none of the solutions ever seem to apply or work in the real world….
and so it is left to the same old countries to do most of the real sacrificing, we’re not perfect, but i’d stack our records up against any others on the planet….
Gustav:
“Do they possess a UN mandate for their actions in Iraq?”
Actually, yes. UN resolution 1482, which ‘granted’ (gee, thanks, Kofi) the U.S. and UK authority to govern post-war Iraq. Legal pretexts for taking Saddam out stretch all the way back to his failure to comply with the terms of the 1991 cease-fire agreement (thereby voiding the cease fire).
“Why is the US in Iraq when such a horrendous genocide is taking place in Darfur?”
Because problems in the middle east, so close to the jugular vein of the global economy, are a greater threat to the U.S.—and by extension, a greater threat to the welfare and livelihoods of hundreds of millions worldwide (particuarly in developing countries weepy do-gooders claim to care so much about) who are utterly dependent upon continued functioning and growth of that economy.
Tell you what. Since the Chinese have extensive oil interests in Sudan, why don’t you ask the world’s next ‘superpower’ to start assuming some of the global responsibilities commensurate with great power status and put its business partner back on the leash?
Or are we the only ones who get to take out the world’s garbage?
Or, better yet, why don’t you get off your ass and do something about it if you think it’s such a problem?
“the United States will never allow such a tragedy to occur again”
And the very first time we move to dispose of one of the world’s most prolific mass murderers, we get backstabbing ‘traditional allies’ who are bribed for their ‘principled opposition,’ carping from moral exhibitionists who’ll speak ‘truth to power’ only when the power never bites back, and the elevation of anti-Americanism into a globally-fashionable form of bigotry.
Never again, my ass. Like Red Barber always said, “The fans (supporters) always play the game better than the players.”
#148 If rhh is still alive when they pick him up he might have had enough practice at being alert to realise that even Loonig, Fisk and Lowenstein have dangly bits and that, therefore, possession of such cannot be regarded as the sine qua non of rightthinkingness.
Indeed, 60% of women, a majority of them, vote like men and don’t buy soap opera.
Alas! The remaining 40% is the big and easily attracted bloc, for the MSM. So soap opera news means there’s always news and always an audience, every day, and that pays - barely - the MSM bills.
Losing the vote is something the 60% of women ought to be willing to go along with, to get rid of this 40% that controls the MSM’s editing, and politicians via their news editing effects.
You want a voting population that doesn’t have a large proportion of loons
RebeccaH, Crusader, Proud2Be@slaveygirl, and Muslim Asshole are all the same person ??????????
bzzzzzzzzzzt!
No fukkin’ way!Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 16 at 04:28 PM • permalinkloose lips 154
And you KNOW that SDD steers clear of disguising himself as a sheep after that dreadful gum-boot-and-velcro-gloves incident in Dunedin, New Zealand…
... oops, SDD told me never to mention that…Baaaahackstabber!
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 16 at 05:02 PM • permalinkIt takes heroes, not committees to make a difference, people willing to say “Fuck You!” to UN standing orders and act as a human—a real “mensch”—like General Roméo Dallaire, a French Canadian.
“A young officer is entering a village,” Dallaire recounts. “The village has been wiped out except for a few women and children still alive [in a ditch filled with bodies]. There is 30 percent AIDS in that area. There is blood all over that place, no rubber gloves. Does the platoon commander order his troops to get in there, into the ditch risking AIDS, and help?” The question, it turns out, is not an exercise in armchair ethics. “When I asked the platoon commanders, those from 23 of the 26 nations that sent forces said they would order their troops to keep marching. Commanders from three nations- Holland, Ghana, and Canada-were saved the complexity of the question because by the time they turned around their troops were already in the ditch.”
Dallaire continues, his hands alive, his eyes still, the Gallic-tinted accent of his native Quebec growing more pronounced. “Or a soldier is watching two girls, 13 or 14, both with children on their backs, with a crowd spurring on the one with a machete to kill the other girl because she is different. What does the soldier do? Shoot the girl with the machete, possibly killing her baby? Shoot into the crowd? Do nothing?”
“Should I myself,” he asks, “negotiate with a militia commander with gore on his shirt and his hands from the morning’s work, making a joke, to get him to withdraw his gang so I can move thousands of people [to safety] Or do I pull out my pistol and shoot him between the eyes?”(Shoot the motherfucker, I say, and screw the UN.)
Despite the lack of support and the limitations of his force, General Roméo Dallaire exerted untiring personal and professional efforts to protect and save those he could. General Dallaire was asked to leave Rwanda on three occasions, but chose to stay — along with a volunteer force formally under UN command — in an effort to preserve human life.
His personal actions, and those of the soldiers he led, stand out as a powerful illustration of human courage and moral conviction. . . . his personal refusal to abandon the victims of the Rwandan Genocide to their fate stands as a memorial to the million people forgotten by the world.
A million people Dallaire should have had the capacity to save, yet could not because the international community failed to consider Rwanda important enough to provide him with the means to do so.
After a 100-day reign of terror, some 800,000 Rwandan civilians were dead, most killed by their machete-wielding neighbors. Dallaire had sounded the alarm. He’d begged. He’d bellowed. He’d even disobeyed orders. “l was ordered to withdraw…by [then-U.N. Sec. Gen. Boutros] Boutros Ghali about seven, eight days into it. .. and I said to him, ‘I can’t, I’ve got thousands’ -by then we had over 20,000 people-‘in areas under our control,”’ Dallaire said in a recent interview with Amnesty Now. The general’s hands, always moving, rose beside his face as if to block the memories. “The situation was going to shit….And, I said, ‘No, I can’t leave.”
In an assessment that military experts now accept as realistic, Dallaire argued that with 5,000 well-equipped soldiers and a free hand to fight Hutu power, he could bring the genocide to a rapid halt.
The U.N. turned him down. He asked the U.S. to block the Hutu radio transmissions. The Clinton administration refused to do even that.
The Defense Department, according to a memo, assessed the cost of jamming the Hutu hate broadcasts at $8,500 per flight-hour.
Twelve years later, in daylight and in dreams, Dallaire still hears the cries of wounded children, the weeping of survivors, the voice of the man who died at the other end of a phone line as the general listened. He still can’t escape the smell of death, the memories of hacked-off limbs scattered on the ground, and worst of all, he says, the “thousands upon thousands of sets of eyes in the night, in the dark, just floating and looking back” at him in anger, accusation, or eternal pleading.
The UN makes me sick.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 02 16 at 09:00 PM • permalink#172, RebeccaH
The point I was trying to make is that MS and p2b both use *rolleyes* whereas you consistently don’t use that and Crusader doesn’t use it either. Hence you are different from Crusader and both of you are different from MS and p2b but MS and p2b appear to be the same - unless there is a standard *rolleyes* command for an emoticon in which case you might expect many different people to use it. Is there? The only standard one I know about is :rolleyes.
Sounds like the UN…
tribal conflict or genocide
:rolleyes or *rolleyes*
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 02 16 at 09:15 PM • permalink176
Big smooch.
whu whu whu ... (snatches out large red hankie, mops forehead, wrings out hanky with both hands) ... wha what I meant, that is, um um, was that ... was that those other persons, P2B@2ndClass and Muslim@SoleOfMyShoe, were um were not the same person. As each other I mean.
Scuse me, I uh I have to go take care of something…Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 17 at 01:37 PM • permalink
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As has been said before, best to be provocative when you least expect to provoke anything.
Gutless pieces of shite!