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NOT DISPROPORTIONATE YET
Just a thought on Israel’s so-called disproportionate response: Hezbollah evidently doesn’t agree, or else they would have handed back the two Israeli soldiers they kidnapped on July 12.
UPDATE. Andrew Coyne:
On July 13, one day after Israel began its assault on Hezbollah’s south Lebanon stronghold, the European Union denounced what it called Israel’s “disproportionate use of force.” France and Russia both issued statements to the same effect. This was, I repeat, one day into the campaign, when the civilian death toll was in double digits.
Maybe they meant “disproportionate” in the sense that Israel’s response wasn’t strong enough.
Did that a few days ago, Craig. It’s quite simple, and they take PayPal.
A great way to show support to Israel—PIZZA!!!!
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 22 at 01:24 PM • permalinkAnd it’s not disportionate—I specifically requested that the pizza be cut into equal slices.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 22 at 01:24 PM • permalinkMaybe they meant “disproportionate” in the sense that Israel’s response wasn’t strong enough.
With this, I agree. My first target would have been the Bekaa Valley, and hopefully some of Saddam’s weapons REALLY would have been hidden there, the vacation home of Assad the Israelis buzzed, then downtown Damascus, Assad’s and Hezbollah headquarters…daring Persia for the response the brave midget, promised.
SAINTLY INNOCENT CIVILIAN: “I have nothing to do with Hizb’allah except supporting it in every way I can think of in it’s untiring efforts to finish what Hitler started even though he didn’t do anything!”
MAILED FIST OF ISRAEL: “POW! Uppercut!”
SLC: “AAAh, help me Allah, they are defending themselves somehow! Absolutely none of this is our fault and yet our airport is exploding.”
KOFI ANNAN: “Cease your brutish beating of that callow youth! It’s not his fault he hates Jews and supports an organization that has absolutely nothing to do with him that kills Jews! People have been killing Jews for thousands of years, you never complained before!”
MAILED FIST OF ISRAEL: -BEEP! Thank you for calling the Mailed Fist of Israel, currently raining blows apon the bloody, pulverized face of some worthless Hizb’allah jackass. If you would like to be the next to receive some of our patented ‘missile therapy’, dial 1, if you wish to register a strong condemnation of whatever I happen to be doing at this very instant, dial 2, if you’re Kofi Anan or Jimmy Carter, dial 1-800 go-fuck-yourself. Thank you! BEEP!
KOFI ANNAN: “This is an outrage! I ordered the Fillet Mignon and I got the Boeuf a la mode!
SLC: “Focus, Kofi!”
KOFI ANNAN: “Oh right, yeah, the Americans-“
SLC: “Jews-“
KOFI ANNAN: “Jews, are bombing the Iraqis-“
SLC: “Lebanese-“
KOFI ANNAN: “Leb.. seriously, I’m going to have to send this back.”
SLC: “Will no one save us from this GENOCIDE!!? The body count is at 300, that’s twice the toll of the Holocaust and the siege of Stalingrad combined!!!! God, I seriously empathize with what Hitler felt even though he didn’t do anything, I bet the Jews bombed him too. Now I must download mpgs of decapitated American Servicemen for an Islamist website to put on the screen of my mobile phone so I can show some asshole Guardian correspondent how radicalized I’ve been by Israel’s illegal war of aggression!”
IRON-SHOD JACKBOOT OF AMERICA: “Hey, can anyone join this party? POW!!”
SYRIA: “Aaaah!”
Amos catches the Kofi flavor perfectly.
And yes, I think he probably is a war criminal (Kofi, not Amos). I think he has been profiteering on the backs of the Iraqis and any other host he could find in the whole wide world. That he might eat steak, instead of looking for the piece of carrot they told him might be in his broth today, and mashing up cockroaches for the protein, is an injustice that ought to be corrected.
#1, Just sent some pizza, thanks for the link.
One special thing about the ingathering of Jews—the food in Israel is great!
Like curry? pizza? chocolate? p’roshki?, beer? cous-cous? shashlik? meat pies? goulash? burritos?
You can walk down the main drag in Netanya and get any one of the above (and more)—trust me, the pizza by-the-slice in Israel is (pardon) to die for.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 07 22 at 04:28 PM • permalinkIsumbras, try this link:
http://www.serialno3817131.com/
Nice photos! There’s something about chicks with guns that attracts me, but chicks in uniform with guns….mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 22 at 04:50 PM • permalinkWhile the term ‘disproportionate’ is being bandied around. Hardly anyone seems to know what it means in the context of war.
Disproportionate refers to a military action in relation to its objective.
Levelling a large town because there were a handful of combatants in it would be disproportionate. Levelling a small village full of combatants wouldn’t be.
From my perspective, Israel’s actions to date seem insufficiently proportionate.
6: “I pray every day that the Israelis don’t stop until the job is done. Otherwise, it was all for nothing.”
I hope Israel is feinting, saying “limited incursions” as a deception, but that she is really on the verge of launching something massive—Air, sea, and land. Mossad. Something that will do to Lebanon (Hezbollah and the Vichy crowd—Lebanon is so French!!!) and Syria what was done to the psyche of Jordan and Egypt. Iranian leaders need to be dropping like flies and the resistance there needs to start blowing things up. Assad and all his henchmen need to have falls that break necks and heart attacks. The valley Lebanon and Syria share needs to be thoroughly looked over and all of Syria’s tanks taken out. Abbas needs to suddenly have an empty field in front of him. Nothing but daylight to the end-zone with Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia (Bush better lay down the law) blocking up front. If not, I fear for Israel. Do she still have the resolve to do what needs to be done? Two generations on, I know Israelis have not forgotten, but being capable of deeds is an entirely different matter. I’m very worried. Olmert, whom I’d like if times were not these, worries me. Times like these require different mettle. One can only hope he feels his lack and listens to Netenyahu and the Generals who aren’t paralyzed by 1982 and the nineties. This is ‘48, 67, 73. Roman invasion. Old Testament testing.
This latest crisis once more throws into sharp relief collective humanity’s failure to take responsibility for our actions over nearly two millenia.
I am old enough to remember a time when the fledgling State of Israel just endured the ceaseless pounding of her settlements by enemy rockets and mortars. Her enemies held all the high points, the vantage points from which to attack the citizens of Israel with impunity. She endured without retaliation until the time came when she could endure no more.
As soon as she did retaliate, however, the world’s mass media was in the forefront of attacking Israel for ‘disproportionate responses’ and etcera, sickenenly and hypocritically ad infinitum.
The single reason for the existence of ‘occupied’ territories is that Israel’ enemies kept attacking and kept losing. Israel was forced to ‘occupy’ these territories to provide her with a buffer zone. That she was correct in this action is now proved by her withdrawal from Gaza and the resulting resumption of rocket attacks by Palestinians.
Enough is enough! Collective humanity owes these people BIG TIME! The catalogue of crimes against the Jewish people, much of it committed in the name of so-called ‘Christianity’, is the most shameful, the most truly wicked expression of man’s inhumanity to man that is possible to conceive. If there is a devil, a satan, then this monstrous exhibition must surely be its crowning achievement against the people who provided us with the likes of Moses and Jesus.
And yet much of the world sits back in their armchairs and passes judgement on the Jews!
Surely, collective humanity must do something for the Palestinian dispossessed, displaced and disavantaged. And I don’t mean throwing billions of dollars at corrupt Yasser Arafat-type regimes. We must fill the breach because their own Arab and Muslim neighbours, with their petro-trillions, have certainly done nothing. And why have they done nothing in sixty years? Because they have deliberately employed a policy of keeping the Palestinian ‘refugees’ firmly in place to use as a constantly available club to wield against the State of Israel.
I repeat, collective humanity owes the Jewish people this miserable scrap of dirt. We owe these people freedom to finally live in peace.
Frankly, I don’t care what labels people choose to stick on me. Frankly, I just don’t give a damn. But, frankly, I will continue to support Israel’s right to exist until the crack of doom, or longer…
As an Australian, I’m mindful of the fact that one of our greatest Australians, Doctor Herbert Vere Evatt, was once a President of the United Nations. Yes…how many people actually know this? It’s an indictment on my own country that very few Australians do.
But that disgraceful fact can be sheeted home to the Australian media who began a concerted ‘whispering campaign’ against him because he had committed the cardinal , or perhaps ‘mortal’ sin of supporting Israel.
Doctor Herbert Vere Evatt was once described by an Israeli Foreign Minister, Abba Eban, as the ‘midwife who gave birth to the State of Israel’. Surely, the kiss of death, as his reputation was later shredded and sullied to such an extent that he is largely forgotten in his own country. When he is (rarely) referred to in the media, it is usually along the lines of ‘the Doc went off his head you know…”
Such is the fate of all who stand up for Israel, or even for just common decency.
By the way, at the First Council of Nicea in 325 AD, the Jews were declared as perfidious Christ-killers, people to be avoided, converted, or persecuted. They were only absolved of the ‘murder of Jesus’ by Pope John XX111 in 1965. Let’s see now…that’s…1640 years…
20: Mighty high praise from Abba Eban who is right up there with Churchill in my book. A book without many pages, but it has just gained a new one—Doctor Herbert Vere Evatt. I’ll look up his birthday and thus have occasion for one more birthday toast and bottle(s) of wine each year. Thanks Vynette. And well said.
Iran is an existential threat to Israel and the Jews just as Hitler and the Nazis were. They are not only pulling strings in the Middle East, but helping out dear leader Kim too. So for those who might be thinking I went a little overboard on my last post, I have nothing polite to say in reply.
Vynette, don’t copy entire posts you’ve made on your blog over here. An excerpt and a link will do.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 07 22 at 06:56 PM • permalink#20 Vynette. ‘Doc’ Evatt was fairly sane when God used him to arrange and approve the existence of Israel in the UN.
Unfortunately [bio lookers-up, note] he later became a dupe of leftists and communists in Australia as Labor Party Opposition leader, and made a complete fool of himself with his anti-anti-communism legal defence of spies and traitors to liberty.In a way, his career exactly mirrors the political slide of the whole UN membership since.
“Welcome aboard Lebonese-Islamic-dual passport-australian-awww my god people on flight 69, Virgin Airlines to Sydney Australia with compliments from a Guv’un’ment called Australia.
We hope you enjoy the Virgins, and trust Allah will bless this flight. Have a great flight, and our Virgin Attendants will be on call to help you!”
In case of an emergency please sing “Oh Danny Boy” thank you.
or there’s always Leb’N'O ships to get out of the country!
The [Russian] Foreign Ministry blasted Israel’s offensive against Lebanon on Thursday, calling for an immediate cease-fire and charging that Israel’s military response had “exceeded the bounds of an anti-terrorist operation.”
I suppose it must be true, considering the Russians are the experts in excess. (link)
Evatt was right about Israel, but he sure was daffy later when he rejected that there were any Soviet spies in Australia.
Posted by Quentin George on 2006 07 22 at 08:07 PM • permalinkSome 600,000 German civilians were lost due to Allied bombings alone, nearly 1% of their pre-war population. A very large minority had voted for Hitler, as has also happened with the Palestinian Arabs and their neo-Nazi Hamas. The total German dead were 10.82% which equals 154,592 from Gaza and 266,225 West Bank Arabs, or 420,817 in total.
The much lower Japanese 3.61% rate of dead gives 51,578 for Gaza, 88,824 for West Bank, or 140,402 in total. By either standard, Palestinians have suffered little - so far.
(Source)
[I have made the following changes to this comment: the above paragraphs, which were copied from the site linked under them, have been put in blockquotes, and the link itself, which had been pasted in raw and was breaking the page layout, has been made into a clickable link. I do this only because Mr. Lewis has been commenting here for a while and is usually not so careless. But this is the last time I will do this. People, if there are problems using the simple formatting buttons I have provided here, then the proper formatting code is available at the link above the comment box. Please also adhere to the most basic rules when it comes to quoting someone else—if you don’t want to bother with the intricacies of clicking the “quote” button before and after you copy and paste, then please bestir yourself to make the two extra keystrokes necessary to place quotation marks at either end of your quoted statement. And please don’t destroy the motherfriggin’ page layout with carelessly-slappped-down urls. That is all. For now. The Management.]
Nobody ever hears how “disproportionate” nuking Japan or bombing Dresden was…
Elsewhere, now that Ethiopia is at war with Jihadis and has invaded Somalia, I do hope their response is “proportionate”. Oh, I’m sorry, you didn’t hear about it? I guess there were no Jews involved… Chances are, like Darfur, thousands will die and we won’t read about it.
#31 Dan,
Actually there has been a good deal of bitching about both Dresden and the nuking of Japan in recent decades. The lefties even wanted to put up a display in the Smithsonian when the Enola Gay was displayed there telling everybody how awful the US was for having done the dirty deed. An outcry stopped that but the lefties are constantly trying and we can’t always be aware of or stop their attempts at propaganda.The screwy thing is that nuking two Japanese cities ended the war with hundreds of thousands fewer American deaths and millions fewer Japanese ones, not to mention deaths among other nationalities in the countries occupied by Japan, than if the invasion had gone ahead. The nuclear bombs saved innumerable lives all around.
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2006 07 22 at 09:10 PM • permalinkI got to watch Insiders this morning with Bolta for thefirst time in forever, and he also brought up the “disproportionate” response by Israel and the fact that Hezbollah obviously disagree with the lefties about said proportionality.
He pointed out that is Hezbollah thought is was dispro (too lazy to type that big word) then they would have handed the kidnapped soldiers back.
Also on Insiders, an interview with Alexander Downer. I am liking Downer more and more, especially when compared with Costello’s schoolgirl whining.
Downer was asked about the UN and our mate Kofi, and he was oh, so diplomatic. He didn’t say anything wrong, but the impression was that the UN had a presence in the region, and it never stopped anything, so why pay attention to them now.
Question from me: Is there anyone who actually takes the UN seriously at all any more?
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 07 22 at 09:28 PM • permalinkSorry Andrea, I thought it may be impolite to put a link to my blog on your blog.
To Barrie and Quentin, you are just perpetuating this ‘the doc was off his head bit’. He was the victim of the most disgraceful fraud ever perpetrated on the citizens of Australia.
What fraud is this you say? Why the 1954 Petrov Fraud of course, dreamed up by our late esteemed leader, Menzies, to destroy Evatt and everything he stood for.
And why would he do that? Because Evatt had almost single-handedly thwarted Menzies’ repeated attempts to impose the most pernicious piece of legislation ever passed by any parliament of this country - The Communist Party Dissolution Bill, 1950.
Read what the Judges had to say about this Bill when it was challenged in the High Court. For the framers of current anti-terrorist laws, read and weep for ‘ye be as little children’ in comparison to the framers of this fascist piece of infamy.
Anyway, Evatt had to be destroyed after this. And he was. Menzies’ henchmen in ASIO paid a third secretary of the Russian Embassy, Vladimir Petrov, 5000 pounds to say he stole documents from the Embassy building in Canberra.
These documents, cooked up by ASIO, allowed Menzies to set up the ‘Royal Commission into Espionage’ at which Evatt appeared in defence of one of his staff members who, surprise, surprise, just happened to have been set up by the perpetrators.
Unfortunately for ASIO, they did not choose wisely. They suborned a drunken oaf with a penchant for inter-embassy parties and an inability to give consistent evidence of how he was able to remove documents from the Embassy safe. Petrov’s story was exposed as a complete fabrication by Evatt at the Royal Commission. Proof of this manipulation and deception of the Australian people is contained in the Commission’s 3000 foolscap page report. Perhaps it was supposed that no one would ever go through this documentation with a fine tooth comb. Unfortunately for the perpetrators, however, someone by the name of E.P.Wixted did, several times. His purpose? To vindicate Dr. Evatt’s name.
If one were to tempted to think that all this is just ancient history, then let me disabuse your mind. The fallout from the Petrov Fraud not only lost Dr Evatt an almost certain spot as Australia’s next Prime Minister but also kept the Labor Party from office for many years. Most importantly of all, however, the Petrov Fraud played another, even more sinister role as ‘sister act’ to the McCarthy Tribunal in the United States. The purpose?...to get both countries involved in the Vietnam War…to stop the ‘downward thrust of Asian Communism.’ And I suppose that the fallout from that war is incalculable.
vynette…. The Petrov affair was not fradulent. I don’t know what moonbat sites you’ve been reading that on.
Posted by Quentin George on 2006 07 22 at 10:23 PM • permalink#38 ROTFL. I thought views such as yours on Petrov had been discredited years ago.
Nice effort at hijacking of the thread, though.
Back on topic, I think Europe’s version of a ‘proportionate response’ would be something from Animal House, along the lines of “Please sir, may I have another! Please sir, may I have another!”
Vynette, it’s not impolite to put a link to your blog here (as long as you don’t simply use the comments for free blog advertisement), but it is impolite to divert a comment thread into something you’d prefer to talk about. It’s called “thread hijacking,” and if it continues it can get you banned.
If you want people to visit your blog, but you aren’t really interested in sticking with the topics under conversation here, then I suggest you buy a blog ad from Tim. Link under the current blog ad on the front page sidebar.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 07 22 at 10:30 PM • permalinkJesus. The work of an admin really is never done. Sometimes I wonder why I bother gnawing through the leather straps every day.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 07 22 at 10:42 PM • permalink#35 Question from me: Is there anyone who actually takes the UN seriously at all any more?
YES. The EU is using the UN as its model, which is why it is trying to get bigger, and so bureaucratic that it can’t do anything well at all.
It also has many appointees with great perks who lecture elected representatives and nations about poverty and war.#36 #34 Lonie - The argument tends to run that Japan was going to surrender within days anyway and the nuclear bombs were unnecessary ..
Within how many days -say 200?
Well, after they were horribly nuked, it still took almost a week for their leaders to decide to surrender, and only then when the Emperor made them.
That anti-US, anti-Truman theory doesn’t fly too well given this fact of history, does it?Re #44 Sorry to go on, but Vynette needs to know too that R. Manne comes from a Jewish Holocaust family, so her conspiracy theory about pro-Israel Evatt being destroyed by rightwing anti-Jewish beasts makes no sense.
I hope Vynette is young enough to recover from her indoctrination.PS Australia did have USSR spies inside, and Petrov was a very valuable spy defector for the West, as many accessed Cold War files show.
Regarding nuking, it would seem that throughout history, opposing sides only came to the negotiating table with a productive long-standing result, after one side had been well and truly crushed. Japan and Germany come to mind.
Unfortunately, the Islamists, be they Palestinian, Al-Queada, Hizballah etc, have simply not been crushed. Indeed, they would have no reason to even believe they are under attack, given the support they receive from their enemy’s Left-wing, a culpable media, and world leaders who refuse to even name the enemy for fear of upsetting anybody.
The ‘War on Terror’ will be won by crushing Islamists.
It will not be won by stifling Israel - the war’s front line, simultaneously trying to win a popularity contest with a complicit Islamic world and refusing to call a spade a spade.
This is a war. We didn’t start it but we need to finish it. In a war, people will get hurt. People will get upset. People will have to choose a side. It’s just that simple.
Israel should be applauded for the action it is taking. If any western country suffers a terrorist attack in the future a Muslim terrorist organisation should be Zapped, the Bastards would soon get the message. If that terrorist organisation is being supported by “other” countries those countries should receive a tactical nuclear in one of their major cities. That is how I feel this evening, tomorrow morning (Monday) I would NUKE the Fucking lot of them.
Mr. Dan Lewis: emailing me with the subject line “motherfriggin’” and then complaining that my correction of your errors in order to keep this page readable ruined something you call the “flow” of your comment is not the way to stay in my good graces. And believe me, you want to stay in my good graces.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 07 23 at 12:04 PM • permalinkDan Lewis, you really don’t want to make Andrea mad. Trust me. Even the cambrian epoch wasn’t big enough for me to hide in when I did.
Kofi as a war criminal? Ok, maybe not. But criminally incompetent? Yup. Also on the take? Sure. Absolutely. If Bill Clinton got the job, he’d actually raise the decency level in the UN.
Kofi Annan heads the United Nations, a institution supposedly designed to give a voice to the powerless. Instead, he not only turns a blind eye to the rape, pillage, and murder of the innocents by the ruthless, he excuses (and possibly benefits from) the thievery in his own ranks. To me, that makes him complicit in criminal acts: therefore, a criminal.
#57, RebeccaH,
Thanks. I’m glad it didn’t go unanswered. I’m glad someone answered it who focused on the essentials.
I was really tired when I finally finished that post. I went off line immediately afterward, without checking the post. I probably hit the preview again without realizing it. Careless of me, damme.
phil_b: While the term ‘disproportionate’ is being bandied around. Hardly anyone seems to know what it means in the context of war. Disproportionate refers to a military action in relation to its objective. Levelling a large town because there were a handful of combatants in it would be disproportionate. Levelling a small village full of combatants wouldn’t be.
Here’s a clear definition:
“Proportionality: The overall destruction expected from the use of force must be outweighed by the good to be achieved.”
Posted by Serenity Now on 2006 07 23 at 09:58 PM • permalinkyou really don’t want to make Andrea mad. Trust me. Even the cambrian epoch wasn’t big enough for me to hide in when I did.
Yup. I’ve got the Tardis. No I didn’t buy it—two hearts, two bullets, no problem.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 07 23 at 11:55 PM • permalinkGive.
It.
Back.
Andrea.
If it’s not Stoop Davy Dave or Michael Lonie, it’s Andrea.
Posted by wronwright on 2006 07 24 at 05:58 AM • permalinkMr. Dan Lewis: emailing me with the subject line “motherfriggin’” and then complaining that my correction of your errors in order to keep this page readable ruined something you call the “flow” of your comment is not the way to stay in my good graces.—posted by Andrea Harris
Sorry, but I had to laugh at that. Good try Dan.
(imaging Dan shouting “damn it Andrea, there goes my flow”)
Posted by wronwright on 2006 07 24 at 06:04 AM • permalinkHello..
#34. Michael Lonie and others.
I think you are wrong. The scientists involved, Eisenhower, Supreme Commander and Leahy, Chief of Staff, all opposed the use of the bombs.
ASs usual they were overruled by the politicians who hid behind grand words and intentions whilst thousands died and probably for no great benefit.If any of you can read articles like this and not be moved to pity, then you are truly lost to any god you may claim to follow. Eternal damnation will be yours.
This does nobody any good, least of all your sacred Israel. They can not use any claims of any sort at all to justify this sort of murderous action.
They have thrown away years of suffering as they throw away the lives of the young girls you foolish old men drool over, and for what?
For nothing. All will lose in this maddness.
Shame on them their ancestors and their children.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,1827422,00.htmlThis does have an on topic point..really!
I saw a plesant little show on the American prison system done by the BBC.
All suitable evil music and barbed wire shots ect.
I only caught about 10 minutes of the show with thestupid cow presenter making a tool of herself.
She showed an inmate being taken out of his cell forcibly by 12 guards, in what I’d call a texbook takedown.
The stupid reporter asked “why did you use 12 men”, to which the prison warden replied, “would you rather I used 10?”.Long winded but in the end its less suffering for everyone to be confronted with overwhelming force. The Officers have much lower chance of being injured, the prisoner KNOWS he can either comply or be forced to comply, and he will be removed with the minimum of resistance.
Thats disproportionate ??? Id rather think of it as being a logical and merciful option.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 07 24 at 08:51 AM • permalinkYou have already shown your self up.
Israel would seem sacred to you, but nothing else is. That is a great contradiction you present. Either you are a believer or you are not. If you are a believer, then you should know that what you enjoy speaking of is wrong. All this killing is wrong. Do not quote or misquote old books and passages written by long dead writers to justify your hatred of any others. This is today we are in now. If you do not believe, then the source of your joy is hate and not love. A truly poisonous joy. Would you find joy in such a thing if you yourself were receiving it? I doubt it. Cowardly man. And you speak to me of humility. Look to your own you hypocrite.
You may try and twist and turn with your words and phrases but it can not hide the truth of this.
Manufactured histories can not displace the fact of truthful histories. People who hide the truth from themselves and others are fools who are doomed to make the same foolish mistakes as before.suzieq
Get back on the meds, that made bugger all sense
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 07 24 at 09:11 AM • permalinkWronwright: Go on, you can do it. Get it back from her.
(Psst! Hey guys! Wron’s gonna get another beating!).
I’m getting the popcorn!
Elizabeth
Imperial KeeperPosted by Elizabeth Imperial Keeper on 2006 07 24 at 04:25 PM • permalink
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