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ROLLERS DOOMED
John Howard on terrorism:
Those who imagine that somehow or other you can escape it by rolling yourself into a little ball and going over in the corner and hoping that you’re not going to be noticed are doomed to be very, very uncomfortably disappointed.
I wonder if he has people like Marr in mind when he talks of rolling up in a ball - arse in the air of course.
Posted by The (WHMECDM) President on 2006 05 18 at 01:32 AM • permalinkWhat if we rolled up into a really tiny ball and refused to look at the elephant in the other corner?
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2006 05 18 at 01:53 AM • permalinkRolling yourself into a ball - in some regions known as the “Hide Under The Blanket” strategy. If you can’t see the boogeyman, the boogeyman can’t see you.
Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2006 05 18 at 02:11 AM • permalinkMan o’Steel!
The press were likely quite unprepared for Howard’s style. I didn’t count the words in his AWB inquiry/Congress inquiry response, but I know every word counted.
————————————-Punters:
Taking bets on when Addammo shows up to splutter and hiss.
Current odds:
by Post #10: 50 to 1
by Post #15: 25 to 1
by Post #20: 15 to 1
by Post #30: 5 to 1Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 05 18 at 02:15 AM • permalinkAddamo seems more obsessed by Dubya than Howard, MentalFloss, and may not be familiar with the Oz PM.
But since Addamo never lets his ignorance and mere facts get in the way of his opinions, it’s certainly possible.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 05 18 at 03:03 AM • permalinkShame on you Mental Floss! Now He might think that he’ll get more attention if he doesn’t show up.
I don’t know who specifically your Mr. Howard was addressing, but it sounds a lot like what we say to the ostriches who show up around here. People like Adammo must be full of fear to be able to hate like they do; and have little control over their lives. Useless to speculate, because that’s all it is. Thankfully, I will never have to meet this particular Adammo, and my illness keeps the rest away. <edit out line after line of screed against government petty tyrants>
I know very little about Mr. Howard, but I like what I do know. The snippets of speeches that I’v exposed to are impressive. I like his substance better than Blair’s. I’ve never heard him give a whole speech, though I would like to.
If they roll themselves up in a really really really tiny ball (hoping not to get noticed by the terrorist nutters) then that’s fine. It makes less of a mess on our shoes when they get trodden on.
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 05 18 at 03:41 AM • permalinkHe’s fairly easy to talk to, saltydog. The man appears frequently on radio, you can call up and talk to him—call him by his first name, say “Mate, what do you think about the states redirecting windfall GST taxes instead of investing in infrastructure?”, or “Is the Joint Strike Fighter a worthwhile investment?”, or “What about easing off the fuel excise tax for a while, Mate? Eh?”, or “When are we going to get out of Iraq?”.
He’ll talk straight back at you, personally, without dissembling, virtually without a pause—and if he can’t answer you right away, he’ll ask you to leave your details with the show’s producer and he or a minister will (generally) get back to you.
I know this because I’ve talked to him. I don’t agree with everything he does or says, but I respect him.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 05 18 at 03:50 AM • permalinkHoward: Because the fight against terrorism is not only a military and physical one; it is also an intellectual one. And it’s a question of providing within the Islamic world a successful democratic model as an alternative to the fanaticism of those who would obscenely invoke the sanction of Islam to justify what they seek to do.
News this morning that an Islamist gunman has shot several Turkish judges (during a closed meeting, not in court) is further illustration of the depth of the problem. That line should never be crossed - it has been. Democracy will not survive unless it defends itself with force equal to the task.
It is not, as many lefties like to say, fearmongering to recognise that you are in a fight with implacable adversaries.But if you make yourself really really really tiny, you might fall between a crack or a hole in the floor, saving yourself from being splattered when stepped on. Though, there’s also a splatter risk when you hit the ground after falling, or being eaten by a cockroach or something…a typical leftoid dilemma…
I heard a Turkish offical speak to it on German Radio. There are some very nervous but very angry Turkish Officials—proponents of the continuation of the secular state and very concerned how this will play to their EU aspirations.
“On a knife edge” were the words she used, IIRC.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 05 18 at 04:25 AM • permalinkNothing from the Anglo MSM so far as I can tell from down here.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 05 18 at 04:26 AM • permalinkSaltydog (#10), I was present when John Howard addressed the troops in East Timor in November 1999. It was a bloody excellent speech, straight off the cuff. He has the ability to deal with ‘strategic issues’ while at the same time addressing his audience as individuals.
Posted by AlphaMikeFoxtrot on 2006 05 18 at 06:04 AM • permalinkZoe Brain
I think “lying on your back and covering yourself with urine” forms the fallback position..
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 05 18 at 06:42 AM • permalinkCan anyone imagine this conference taking place between Kerry and your fellow Latham (am I correct in saying Latham) had they won?
THIS…..
Those who imagine that somehow or other you can escape it by rolling yourself into a little ball and going over in the corner and hoping that you’re not going to be noticed are doomed to be very, very uncomfortably disappointed.
...would have been topic #1….after all negotiations had failed with first…bin Laden, second…Zawahiri, third…Zarqawi, fourth… Ahmadinejad.
AMF (#21) So was I. It was a very good speech. Pitched at the right level, relevant and no BS
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 05 18 at 07:09 AM • permalinkIf you saw him deliver the speech you would have noticed that he did so without notes. This is very typical of Howard. He speaks off the cuff and with confidence.
At the opening of the new Parliament House, Howard gave a fantastic speech and without a note in sight, much to the chagrin of Bob Hawke whom he completely upstaged.
Howard is a conviction politician who means what he says and says what he means. He is a refreshing change from the plastic delivery of many of his contemparies.
The_Real_JeffS
“Addamo seems more obsessed by Dubya than Howard, MentalFloss, and may not be familiar with the Oz PM”
That’s because Dubya is the one giving the orders. If Dubya told Howard to invite Zarqawi to Australia for a fully paid visit, he’s also throw in a week at Hayman Island.Both men share the same degree of military experience, which explain their foindness for sending troops of to unecessary wars and agianst defenseless countries. I’m sure if you asked Howard what combat experience would involve, it would likely involve blowing up frogs and doing battle with a Pretzel.
Pretzels and toads are defintitely the work of terrorists.
“But since Addamo never lets his ignorance and mere facts get in the way of his opinions, it’s certainly possible.”
And your fear of terrorists under the bed and around every corner is as healthy as ever.
Just remember, Real_JeffS, Dubya knows where you live and what kind of pie your Aunt Martha bakes. He also knwos about your wife. Is she out of de-tox, yet? Did you know your kids talk to strangers with candy? Have a pretzel?
“Howard is a conviction politician who means what he says and says what he means.”
Like when he said “there would be no GST”? Oh wait….
Thanks, SteveGW. You proved my point about Addamo. 8^D
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 05 18 at 09:14 AM • permalinkYep Addamo, the voters were sure pissed off about the GST and our military involvements. Instead of the handsome parliamentary majority he now holds JH could have had 20 or 30 seats more. But at least all the labour Premiers have courageously handed back their GST take.
And er, “foindness”, “agianst”, “knwos? Try and cut back your Kath and Kim viewing hours.
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 05 18 at 09:19 AM • permalinkAnd the winner is….post #29 - MentalFloss NAILS IT at 5 to 1 re the appearance of the AddamsFamily.
Whoo-oo.
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 05 18 at 09:28 AM • permalinkOh. Christ. Don’t tell me! Has the AddamsFamily really brought up the ‘No GST” bit about Howard? Really?! Now?!!
ROFL! How many years ago was that, AddamsFamily? How many winning elections ago was it?
Sweet Jesus man, when you are in a hole, fer Chrissake STOP DIGGING!
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 05 18 at 09:33 AM • permalinkWhat if I hide behind all the OTHER little balls in the corner?
PRAY FOR PEACE
SO AL QAEDA WILL KILL YOU LAST
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 05 18 at 09:39 AM • permalinkHerald is making a big deal about Richard Howard’s date at the White House dinner. When asked about it, JoHo gave the right answer – Richard is an adult – ask him.
Remember that bit in Farenheit 911 when Moore doorstops the Congressmen asking why so few of their children in the military?
I was gagging for one of them to say to him: ‘they are over 18, ask them! Did you listen to your parents in your choice of career? If not, why expect mine to…’
Posted by Effing & Blinding on 2006 05 18 at 09:44 AM • permalinkEffing & Blinding — One of the charming revelations to come out of Fahrenheit 9/11 was that a) Moore was chasing pols who didn’t actually HAVE children, and b) Congress, at least one party, HAS sons, daughters, nieces and nephews, even grandkids, in Iraq and Afghanistan in numbners well above the societal average.
Wanna guess which party?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 05 18 at 10:07 AM • permalinkSo military experience is now a pre-requisite for being the Chief Executive of both the American and Australian governments? The chickenhawk spiel has resurfaced!
I was in the Marine Corps, that suits me fine. Pity about this requirement of your invention automatically disqualifying Hilary and Bill Clinton. Of course, it would also disqualify Franklin D. Roosevelt( military service: 0) and Abraham Lincoln (military service: militia during the Black Hawk War), but who cares? Why let logic and reson slow you down? You have people to smear and vilify.
The chickenhawk spiel has resurfaced!
Has it? Good. Pretty sure that means, Unless he whips out a DD-214 or can tell us his EAOS, there’s no need to listen to A-mo then. Actually, I was already pretty sure of that, and I have gotten better at skipping past his pesty postings.
Trick is, see, reduce the font size by about one increment, then focus on the red signatures ahead of the black type. Or just bounce out of the text after about the first two msisplenligs.Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 05 18 at 10:51 AM • permalinkBut Stoop, don’t you see the advantages here? The exalted Addamo has deigned to impart the necessary qualifications for a leader to be worthy in his most esteemed mind.
When a leftist nutjob announces that only those with military experience can deploy forces, we can immediately declare that militaristic dictatorship His Roviness has decreed Shall Occur.In another vein, Christopher Hitchens already pointed out that the chickenhawk smear is:
1. anti-democratic(implies that certain qualifications are required that not all citizens do or should have to possess)
2. Hypocritical. How many US Presidents served in the military? Of those, how many experienced combat? Of those, how many acquitted themselves with honor? Of the rest, did any ever deploy forces? If so, then for shame!!!
3. Laughingly injurious to the groups advancing the chickenhawk gambit. The majority of troops in action support operations in Iraq, are re-enlisting in greater numbers, and have a lower desertion rate and suicide rate than before 9/11/2001.
Again we see Addamo casting himself as the friend and benefactor to the unfortunate moppets in the armed forces. As if we could believe him, or trust him. And as if we needed him.
He’s the benefactor who didn’t see any problem with photographs of their coffins being bandied about the MSM. The fact that this was against the wishes of their families, doesn’t seem to bother Addamo, does it? You never did answer why it is you think that some coffins are fair game for exploitation, and some are not.Addamo…..see what happens when you open your mouth? But I must admit that you are a better man than me in one fashion: I would have gotten sick of the taste of my foot in my mouth a long time ago.
Keep it up, man! Leftoids everywhere are depending on you!!!
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 05 18 at 11:21 AM • permalinkMental Floss,
As I’ve said before, if you want the passwords to the porn sites, not need to beat around the bush. Just ask. Sorry can’t help if your thing is kiddie porn or snuff, in which case, El Cidious is your man.
Speaking of El Cid,Here is a fine specimen indeed - one who like some many here believes that a the most likely nuclear attack on the US will come from those with those with the least chance of getting their hands on one.
The_Real_JeffS, what was your point? That I have no idea who Howard is? Damn, best hand in my Ozzy passport. Ever been down under?
Stop Continental Drift!, you seem easily impressed by overwhelming odds. Maybe you and Mentalloss can take bets that John Howard will take a dump in the next 24 hours.
SteveGW, amortiser said “Howard is a conviction politician who means what he says and says what he means” I simply pointed out how flawed that’s statement was. I never disputed that whether this was given the nod by the Australian public
Blue Hen.
Some points taken. Howard does certainly have his head screwed on a great deal more than his puppet master. At least he hasn’t had 8 generals come out a describe him as a f*** up.
Maybe Howard should move to Washington and and take over the reigns for a few years. With things as f***ed up as they are, maybe Bush could take a break, you know, one of his five week vacations. Frankly, we’d be better off just leaving things to chance.
Look at the record:
In the “win” column:
1. Tax cuts for rich friends: check.
In the “loss” column:
1. Asleep at the wheel when jets flew into buildings. Check
2. Presiding over worst intelligence failure since Pearl Harbor: check.
3. Invasion of a country that didn’t attack us gone horribly wrong: check.
4. Losing other country to resurgent Taliban, i.e. “cutting and running:” check.
5. Loss of major American city: check.
6. Significant erosion of civil liberties, e.g. domestic spying. check.During the few moments Christopher Hitchens hasn’t misplaced his scotch, he spews out all manner of garbage. And when it comes to smear, he is without doubt, the Grand Poo Bah.
1. Typical Hitchens stupidity. When a great many lives are involved, it is best to take advice from those in the know, is it not? Bush and his merry men are legendary for doing the exact opposite – hence the 8 generals and Bill Kristol calling for Rumsfled’s head. hence the complete failye fo the mission - whatever it was supposed to be.
2. Hypocritical. How many presidents went AWOL and then shamelessly turned around and call themselves Commander in Chief or believe that a farcical Top Gun moment makes him qualified to ignore those who have experience
3. Meaningless statement given that the military is traditionally very loyal to the President. When was the last time the majority of the military wanted the Secretary of defence to resign?
Seeing as we are now moving on to straw men, do you approve of the way the dead smuggled into the US in the middle of the night and how the media have been banned fro recording the arrivals?
What about the fact that in 2003-2004, Bush game the lame argument of not being able to attend a single funeral (because he was too busy) but managed to attend over 100 campaign fundraising events? Gotta love those priorities.
“The fact that this was against the wishes of their families, doesn’t seem to bother Addamo, does it?”
Which familes? All of them? How would the families know which coffins contianed their relatives?
“You never did answer why it is you think that some coffins are fair game for exploitation, and some are not.”
You never asked, but hey, facts be dammed right? Since when are coffins fair game for exploitation when the photographer is fired for doing so?
I wouldn’t presume to try and answer all your talking points, as they’ve already been adequately answered over and over and you ignore every answer. But I do have a couple of questions.
5. Loss of major American city: check.
Which American city is this? Last time I checked, we still had all of them, including New Orleans.
Which familes? All of them? How would the families know which coffins contianed their relatives?
Does it matter? Not only is this stupidest thing I’ve ever heard, it’s also one of the most callous. And, just a minor point, it also contained the usual spelling error. Are you dyslexic, poor dear?
No, RebeccaH, he’s merely obdurately and proudly ignorant. It’s one of the hallmarks of the Roaring Leftie Moonbat.
Posted by JorgXMcKie on 2006 05 18 at 12:34 PM • permalinkWow, there’s so much to dissect.
Let’s start with the last one: I never asked you about the media’s selective demands to splash the pictures of corpses? Especially those from Iraq, as opposed to casualties resulting from UN deployments?Try rereading yesterday’s thread entitled: Missouri Wins.
“all of the families”? I cited a local media source which admitted that they made no attempt to contact any of the families. The fact that the media could not associate a coffin with a particular deceased serviceman doesn’t give them a free pass. Except in your mind of course.
The dead were “smuggled”? Where’s the proof of this? All of the dead are flown into Dover AFB. The mortuary is there. I cited this yesterday as well. Military policy during both the Clinton and Bush Administration forbids the media from recording their conveyance, for the reasons cited. Once remains are released, there’s nothing stopping the media from ghoulishly trailing the commercial flights and hearses. But whining about this creates the illusion that that something nefarious is ocurring. If the US government was devoted to deceiving us about casualties, please explain the role of the Casualty Asistance Officers, and the use of commercial airlines to transport remains.As for the rebuttal to the chickenhawk ploy, you think that the best way to maintain the claim is to attack the author for a substance abuse problem? That’s rather telling.
1. the first point was that creating this pre-qualification was anathema to a democratic society. I did not say that the Prseident could not or should not confer with any advisors. You dodged that. Also, name any president that deployed forces, and I’ll name at least one military leader that dissented.
2.Who said anyhing about Top Gun, besides you!?! I pointed out that the majority of the presidents did not serve, much less see action. So should they have been disqualified from running, or from deploying forces? I cited two examples. You ignored both.3. Meaningless statement given that the military is traditionally very loyal to the President. When was the last time the majority of the military wanted the Secretary of defence to resign?
Thank you for proving my last point. The military are victims when they’re dead and thus, conveniently quiet. When they agree with you, they’re beacons of truth. When they hold positions that you don’t agree with, then they’re ‘traditionally very loyal’. So the ones that criticized President Bush are being disloyal? Or are you saying that most servicemen are mindless robots incapable of thinking for themselves? A clear majority of the Union army hated Lincoln, especially after a succession of poorly led campaigns and the Emancipation Proclamation was published.
Also, if an examination of the military’s retention rate and their opinion is ‘meaningless’, then why does the media court retired oficers that have dissenting views? Are they not also ‘meaningless’?
By the by, thanks for writing off my opinion and those of everyone who served. That’s really big of you.
The_Real_JeffS, what was your point? That I have no idea who Howard is? Damn, best hand in my Ozzy passport. Ever been down under?
...Addamo never lets his ignorance and mere facts get in the way of his opinions…
Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh…......
(h/t to Blue Hen, RebeccaH, Jorg, MentalFloss, and everyone else on this thread.
Even Addamo, even if it’s only for the entertainment.)
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 05 18 at 03:16 PM • permalinkAdammo,
Let us extrapolate for a moment, using your “facts”. Let us say that everything that is happening is the fault of past US policy. Let us say that Bush, and the entire American oil industry, are all extraordinarily short-sighted people who never think beyond the today’s profits. Oh, and that they are all evil incarnate. What are we to do about the fact that we were attacked - many times, but specifically on 9-11? What are we to do when American’s are kidnapped and/or murdered, as they were for years before 9-11, and continue to be? What do you think would happen if we just ignored the fact that people declared, and are fighting, a war against us?
Please do not simply rehearse your same talking points. I’m conceding your talking points for the sake of this discussion, so saying that “IF we hadn’t done this”, or “IF we hadn’t done that, none of this would be happening”, won’t cut it. I want to know what you would do about the attacks GIVEN your talking points. What is your solution? How do we get them to undeclare war?
(By the way, I would love to see Adumbo walk into a National Guard Armory and tell them that they are not in the military - and that they are slackers and cowards for joining the Guard. I would also like him to explain to those Guardsmen that I knew in Viet Nam - those in hospital beds - that they were not really in the military and that their Guard service meant that they didn’t have to go to war. I’m sure they would have like to have known that before they found themselves over there with people shooting at them. I would also like for him to explain to Guard members, how their service is NOT as inherently dangerous as any other branch of the service, and that flying and practicing in a jet when you are in the Guard is completely different than if you are in the Air Force or Navy; they cut out all the dangerous aspects of your training.)
Uh, folks, Addamo still believes the Bush AWOL lie. He’s clearly not here arguing politics; he’s arguing his religion.
Hell, all his points are lies.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 05 18 at 04:04 PM • permalink49 Wrath of Hen
You somehow addressed everyone but me!?!
Hey! Me too neither!
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 05 18 at 04:29 PM • permalinkAddamo, I simply made a prediction as to when your entry into this thread might occur. I made no personal attack except to characterise your contributions as “splutter and hiss”. I believe your first post here very much affirms that characterisation.
For a fact, your dissent is welcome. Your comments serve as a constant reminder (for me, at least) that a any re-examination of my stance on issues, my opinions and predelictions (which don’t extend to pornography—a subject with which you seem obsessed) in light thereof prove over and over that I am in my right mind (you’ll pardon the pun).
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 05 18 at 06:11 PM • permalinkJohn Howard wakes up about 5am and has read all the newspapers before he takes his brisk walk around 6am. Even his minders have trouble keeping up with him. Then he’s into Parliament House before most staff and engaged in the matters of the day. When Parliament isn’t sitting hes on Talkback Radio fielding calls from Joe Public.
At 66 years old and having probably worked 80 hr + weeks for his last 30+ years in Parliament hes seems very fit and together with his wife has raised a family of 3? Kids and coped with a few family health scares.
———————————————-
Why does this matter?
———————————————-Australias Last left wing Prime Minister, had a love of French antique Clocks, Italian suits, and “mentoring” young male musicians. One “Friend” “won” several government grants for musical pursuits. Keating convinced his boy to buy a vacant convent in Queanbeyan and convert it into an “artists retreat”, Keating was there almost every day to “oversee progress” before heading to the office to be PM at around 11am during his final years in office.
Posted by knuckleheadwatch on 2006 05 18 at 06:12 PM • permalink#65 MF
Don’t trust Addamo. He promises the passwords but keeps them to himself.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 05 18 at 07:13 PM • permalinkLet’s start with your ending statement Blue Hen
I am not writing off your opinion. Believe it or not, I respect your opinion, even though I disagree with you. I trust you appreciate the difference.
“I cited a local media source which admitted that they made no attempt to contact any of the families.”
Since when is war supposed to be so sanitized? People do get killed in wars do they not?
“The fact that the media could not associate a coffin with a particular deceased serviceman doesn’t give them a free pass.”
So where do you draw the line? Should Baghdad ER be banned in case a dying soldier appears on screen?
“Military policy during both the Clinton and Bush Administration forbids the media from recording their conveyance, for the reasons cited.”
I agree, but Bush has enforced it with an iron grip. Clinton did attend funerals of dead and I believe that Bush senior was much more lenient with the enforcement. This is not to imply that there is deception as to the numbers involved, only that the images of many flag draped coffins tend to leave a stain on poll numbers.
“As for the rebuttal to the chickenhawk ploy, you think that the best way to maintain the claim is to attack the author for a substance abuse problem?”
Why is it that you guys suddenly get all sensitive when a bit of shtick is thrown back at you? Check in next time there is a post about Robert Fisk. Hitch is a basket case. A once brilliant mind that has been fermented and who’s soul was sold after 911.
1.There is truth to the democratic argument, except that Bush is without a doubt, the mot cavalier and reckless leader the US had had in memory – at least since Nixon.
”Also, name any president that deployed forces, and I’ll name at least one military leader that dissented.”
How many naming how many dissenters were fired for being right? How many administrations had 8 dissenters come out against them?2. You are right. It is easy to fall for the trap of assuming that the Bush foreign policy is somehow new to the US. It is not and difference only in terms of being more prone to disaster.
3. When military servicemen speak out, it is significant, given that questioning of authority or loyalty is hardly tolerated. These people are the equivalent to whistle blowers, because they are clearly making choices that will not make things easy for them.
“So the ones that criticized President Bush are being disloyal?”
Good question, because it comes down to the conflation of loyalty to country vs loyalty to the president. Which one do you consider loyalty? Tyrants are notorious for confusing the two and so is Bush.
I would never accuse those who enlist as being mindless. As you would agree, there a countless reasons people have for joining the military and similarly, some who enlist are better informed than others.
“Also, if an examination of the military’s retention rate and their opinion is ‘meaningless’, then why does the media court retired officers that have dissenting views?”
Hmmm, maybe because it’s unprecendented? When as the last time 8 retired generals spoke out against an administration? When was the last time a retired general called the undersecretary for defence, the dumbest f**ker on the face of the earth? When was the last time a general was fired for being right about the number of troops necessary and the cost predictions? What was the last administration that rewarded people with medal so freedom for failing miserably in their duty?When was the last conflict Jack Murtha spoke out against?
Salty Dog,
“What are we to do about the fact that we were attacked - many times, but specifically on 9-11?”
Gee I dunno. Maybe go after the guys that ATTACKED us. Then, you might I dunno, consider why the attack took place. When you step into a hornets nest, do you blame the hornets or try to avoid repeating it?
“What are we to do when American’s are kidnapped and/or murdered, as they were for years before 9-11, and continue to be?”
American’s are kidnapped and murdered inside the US too you know. Do you suggest we bomb the US country back to the stone age and then build military bases?
Americans are kidnapped in Iraq because the US turned Iraq into a war zone.
American’s were kidnapped in Iraq because the US overthrew their leader and put a tyrant in his place.
Do you consider these random occurrences?
“What do you think would happen if we just ignored the fact that people declared, and are fighting, a war against us?”Which people? Who declared war against us? Are we talking about Iraq, because I don’t remember anything about war being declared against the US before 2003. Guess you forgot that part right?
“I want to know what you would do about the attacks GIVEN your talking points. What is your solution? How do we get them to undeclare war? “
Talk about framing the debate! We blow up a country and expect rose petals to be thrown our way. Meanwhile, you are asking “why do they hate us”? If you are talking about Iran, they have not declared war against us. They just want us out of their business.
The US has become so used to stepping on toes and taking what they want when they want, that when a country dares to say no, it’s considered an act of war.
Iran, Guatamala, Ecuador, Chile, Panama, Venezuela – all cases of governments wanting to nationalize their resources and they are removed.
As for your shadow boxing exercise re the National Guard, I think we would both agree that Bush’s Champagne Club foray (especially given his absence), was a distant reality from those who put their lives on the line.
Which people? Who declared war against us? Are we talking about Iraq, because I don’t remember anything about war being declared against the US before 2003. Guess you forgot that part right?
Saddam violated the Gulf War ceasefire, repeatedly. Guess you forgot that part, right?
American’s were kidnapped in Iraq because the US overthrew their leader and put a tyrant in his place.
Saddam was their “leader”, and their elected government is a “tyrant”?
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 05 18 at 10:05 PM • permalinkYeah Salty, Iran only wants the US out of its business, such as planning to blow up Israel - no-one’s business but the Iranians.
Addamo - I think the only thing more dodgy than your spelling is you rhetoric. Eight generals out of how many in the US military, four or five thousand perhaps.
Then again, there is nothing more consistent and predictable in this world than moonbats believing in minority rule. Never have been big fans of democracy.
And you are still to tell us what should have been done, apart from the US sticking its nose elsewhere.
Answer these questions please
1) Would 9-11 have happened with Al Gore in the White House.
2) If so, what would he have done in response. (specifics please, not bullshit about not invading - he would have had to do something.
3) What would have been the consequences of taking this action.Addamo, not taking action is an action and has consequences, sometimes worse than acting in the first place. When we talk of war and terrorism there are no perfect solutions, but lesser degrees of negative.
Posted by The (WHMECDM) President on 2006 05 18 at 10:28 PM • permalinkAnd I still believe that addamo is LLL reincarnated, so there.
I believe that you are correct, PW. Good on you!
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 05 18 at 10:29 PM • permalinkAmerican’s are kidnapped and murdered inside the US too you know. Do you suggest we bomb the US country back to the stone age and then build military bases?.
Addamo, you dumb fuck, the US can deploy civilian law enforcement teams inside the US. The cannot deploy them in Iraq etc. That’s one of the major reasons why nations go to war.
I agree with PW, re: Addamo/LLL, and honestly feel that trolldom is ill-served by this amateur.
The level of intellectual rigour displayed by the vast majority of posters on this site (including even the most lighthearted nonsense and witty responsa) should have prompted this denizen of the ether to lift his game.
In earlier threads amicable suggestions and recommendations from myself and others to Addamo urging him to review basic principles of critical analysis; the style, substance and presentation of his position or opinion—all have apparently gone unheeded.
I retract my earlier comment (#65) welcoming his contribution. His arguements are facile, his research incomplete and his bias without foundation.
It is apparent that a tertiary education these days does not extend to providing the graduate even the most basic of dialectical skill.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 05 19 at 01:09 AM • permalinkOnce again, you start out pretending to address what was said, and then immediately approach the points, if at all, at an oblique angle. It then gets worse when you contradict yourself.
Addamo, post #50
Seeing as we are now moving on to straw men, do you approve of the way the dead smuggled into the US in the middle of the night and how the media have been banned fro recording the arrivals?Addamo post#68
This is not to imply that there is deception as to the numbers involved, only that the images of many flag draped coffins tend to leave a stain on poll numbers.
As for your absurd assertion of “where do we draw the line”, two things:
1. This is the third time that you’ve dodged the fact that publishing such images while the remains are conveyed by the government is restricted BECAUSE THE FAMILIES CANNOT BE CONTACTED IN ADVANCE TO GIVE CONSENT. Whether you suspect an ulterior motive or not, that inconvenient fact remains, despite your attempts to marginalize it. You also offer no proof of differences between the three administrations.
2. Contacting families is now “sanitizing war”? And you’re the one pretending to care about the unfortunates in uniform? Hospitals and police agencies have policies for informing next of kin regarding violent crimes and accidental deaths. In most cases, the identies of rape victims are shielded. Should rape be ‘sanitized’, or should we join you in demanding photos of the victims while they’re lying in the hospital bed? Some crimes occur because of public policy decisions, such as the granting of parole. Therefore, by your ‘logic’ we have the right to see these pictures, and the right to vilify any publc figure who dares stand in our way. If this does not hold true, then why are you demanding that US servicemen be held in a lower regard? Indeed, stringent rules exist to prevent the publication of certain scenes involving prisoners of war.
3. You vacillate between railing against the policy itself and the “iron grip” that the Bush Administration supposedly enforces this policy. But while you approach it, you never develop the nerve to openly admit that you want the rights of the families to be trampled by your desire to publicize corpses for gain. In this, you’re no different from Sheehan displaying crosses or signs bearing names of servicemen whose families expressly asked that she desist.Instead of dragging everyone else into this, please put up or shut up: Do you believe that MSM should have the right to unfettered access to the corpses of US servicemen? Please don’t waste our time quibbling about the definition of ‘unfettered’. Once this right is granted, any restriction will lead to cries of censorship from at least one member of the MSM.
Oh yeah. You STILL have not explained the lust for publicizing corpses from Iraq and the lack of interest in corpses from less glamourous locales, such as Haiti, Liberia and Kosovo.
Well said, Blue Hen. But don’t expect any response from Addamo. He’s an especially dull and unimaginative troll, and tends to retreat from a thread when he reaches the “put up or shut up” point…..and he doesn’t return until his courage does.
Eh, what a tool he is.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 05 19 at 02:54 PM • permalinkGive Addamo enough rope and he hangs himself. Have you noticed that if the question asked of him isn’t in a form that he is familiar with, he is unable to understand it?
Blue Hen: Please do not apologize. You are right to go after him, especially on this subject. I can take just about anything the 5th column dishes out, but when they go after the bodies of the fallen, or (what for me is just as bad) harass the hospitalized, those recouperating and trying to rebuild their lives, I can hardly speak for the anger. One of the hardest parts of enduring the Pink Code bitches is that they are such a thoughtless, stupid bunch of people. It isn’t even a matter of ignorance, it’s just plain thoughtlessness most of the time. It is like pushing against a wall of oatmeal; there is no substance to grasp.
Anyway, you did a great job and I thank you.
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Dear Johnny
Stop hurling insults at the Australian labour party!